Is Hell, Eternal Torture?

Why would God write a Bible(which is a road map for our lives)if he didn't mean what he wrote? this is not Socrates or Plato, this is the Living God that we are talking about folks.

 

This verse only tells us that there are two entities that have everlasting life which will be thrown into the lake of Fire. Since they have eternal life, they will be tormented forever. The others that were given an eternal torment were those in the last days that worshipped the Beast.

To prove your point, you will have to find the following in order to support your assumed doctrine on hell.
1st, find a verse that says all humans that die in sin have eternal life. 2nd, find a verse that says all or even most sinners will be tormented, day and night for eternity. The word punishment won't be accepted since punishment was never used in regards to the Beast and False Prophet. In fact, the word Punish is used by God to those he loves.

If you can find these verses, I will start following your interpretation. If you can't will you start believing that when the Bible says man will perish and not have everlasting life, it means death note everlasting torment.

Why was the Bible so clear when describing the everlasting torment of only this handful of Beast connected people, but never said the same of any the billions of unsaved or evil people?

 

I agree, why can't most Christians just accept that the word "perish" means to perish. Why do most Christians think the if the word perish is in the used in the Bible the meaning becomes the opposite of what the word means in all other written usage. Since when did "perish" suddenly mean "live forever in hell?" God isn't Socrates or Plato folks, if he says perish, he means perish, not "to live forever".

 

First statement is incorrect. Man was corrupted in the garden of Eden with the first sin. He was condemned to not only physical death, but spiritual death (eternal punishment away from God). The Bible is VERY SPECIFIC when it says "Eternal Punishment", again, what do you not understand about that?

Second, show me where I side tracked or attacked a person. Attacking a persons belief is not personal. Therefore, no rules have been violated. You see, I can make the assumption that you have not been on the board very long because you do not understand the methods of debate. I did NOT say SHE WAS A JW, I stated that the belief in "burnt (sic) up" is a Jehovah's Witness piece of untruth. There is nothing wrong with me saying that.

Much the same as if I were to say that the belief in Baptismal requirement of salvation is a Cambellite belief.

 

Let me also answer your statement that I believe that people must believe in God to go to hell. This is an assumption on your part.

No, a person does NOT have to know God. This is the sad truth of the matter, and the reason the GREAT COMMISSION is SOOOOOO important. If it weren't, why witness? Jesus has been clear that we might be held accountable for those lost witnessing opportunities.

As for the age and mental capability. Most scholars agree that there is an age of accountability which is when a child becomes aware of right and wrong, at that point he or she adopts the sin of the flesh. If a mentally ill person cannot reach that concept then they too will be spared. They never reach the age of accountability. But an African or whomever who does not know God knows right from wrong--it is OUR job to make sure they know Christ gave us an out.

Your beliefs are just not scriptural, sorry. Not an attack. Just a clarification.

I might also say that if you disagree with a Baptist church on such a "fundamental and major doctrine" as this that you find a church that you agree with. Minor issues that have nothing to do with salvation such as pre-mil or whatever are not on issue here. This is a major heresy. I will also repeat, without attack, that THIS is a JW doctrine.

If the board moderators felt I was attacking personally and not just attacking the issues, then they would deal with me by warning, suspension or disconnection.

I will say that it is my personal opinion that YOU need to study your Bible, or start believing in it, whichever the case may be.

 

I agree, why can't most Christians just accept that the word "perish" means to perish. Why do most Christians think the if the word perish is in the used in the Bible the meaning becomes the opposite of what the word means in all other written usage. Since when did "perish" suddenly mean "live forever in hell?" God isn't Socrates or Plato folks, if he says perish, he means perish, not "to live forever". </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, why WOULD God write in the Bible in several different scriptures "where their worm dieth not" and "eternal punishment"? Perish is to be without God for eternity---that is "perish".

You cannot destroy a person's soul with fire. In is everlasting destruction. "Everlasting punishment", so WHY would God write THIS in the Bible?

 

One final statement. Many of the examples you gave were entirely misunderstanding on your part. You cannot compare tribulation on earth and a city that perishes or is destroyed with the destination after death. You quoted these scriptures many times in other posts and you are simply not taking the scripture at its word or not understanding what you read.

Your beliefs are like many of the beliefs that Paul warned the church of Corinth about when they started going off the deep end on similar issues.

 

Phillip, I have just 2 question for you.

In John 3:16, if a "believer" is given "eternal life" would that mean that this same person just moments before coming to believe, would not have eternal life at that prior point in time? It you say no, then why did God give something (eternal life) as the reward if non-believing would also have the same reward {eternal life}?

 

Originally posted by Phillip: Second, show me where I side tracked or attacked a person. Attacking a persons belief is not personal. Therefore, no rules have been violated.

Since we are all in the 'Baptist only' forum, you know she has repesented herself as a Baptist. Therefore, your question implies she is a fraud and a liar by calling herself a Baptist just because she is making statements that most baptists don't follow. Overt implication that a person is lying about her religious denomination is a personal attack.

 

That is correct. Here we have a very specific verse which indicates that if you or any other "saved Christian" does not visit the sick in prison, you will go into this "eternal punishment" hell.

You will notice, that Jesus is talking to his disciples, so just because they may be already saved by his grace, he still demands they visit the sick in prisons or they will go to hell.

How many Christians through the ages have not visited the sick in prisons, have you ever once done it? Because it is very plain, that those who haven't will be punished.

If that is so, then why would not visiting the sick justify eternity in fire and torment? Is that just punishment for the crime?

Are you sure you will make it out of eternal punishment (whatever that is) because you have violated this direct command from Jesus?

If being saved was enough, why did he bother making this statment?


LVB Matthew 25:41-46
41. Then I will turn to those on my left and say, `Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.
42. For I was hungry and you wouldn't feed me; thirsty, and you wouldn't give me anything to drink;
43. a stranger, and you refused me hospitality; naked, and you wouldn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'
44. ``Then they will reply, `Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?'
45. ``And I will answer, `When you refused to help the least of these my brothers, you were refusing help to me.'
46. ``And they shall go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into everlasting life.''

 

Philip,

you have overlooked the gospel message here. the enemy of Christ is defeated. they are powerless. they are empty shells and non longer have relevance in the future ages to come.

nothing is eternal but God. Man is an (aion) "age abiding" creation. with every (aion) age having a beginning and an ending. eternal, everlasting or forever and ever always relate to ages. periods of time. "second death is the death or end of the purpose of death and hell. when the power of death and hell are overcome by the reality of the truth of the resurrection power of God towards man.
and lastly...be careful of literalizing parables and there specific denotations. is hell fire literal..(its a spirit realm associated with spiritual death)

mans soul is finite. it is the spirit of God that is etenal. Gods image is christ. If man is to become this image. he can only take on the life of Christ. when death is spoken of . it is spirit death. physical death is a transitory situation. it is not relevant to the spirit existence. it is Gods method of allowing mankind to slowly comprehend the invisible by comparing a parallel visible.
"eternal punishment will always be greif and sorrow within the choices of mankind. we will never forget pain that we have caused others. yet we will be allowed to cover over these momnets and acts of sorrow and torment with life giving loving acts towards our fellow man.

anything burnt is via a spirit fire. It is referencing to the holy spirit. it is an activity of refining or changing opinion and choices in finite and everchanging man. you need to study your baptist history and find out when creeds were changed and redefined.
I believe that hell is a transitory spirit state for Gods predestined reprobates.
just as much as God expresses the ideas of kingdom of heaven and God. He also expresses the idea of the kingdom of hell and satan.
as he mentions that these transitory kingdoms of satan are destroyed in the end.
hell and death is not eternal as God is. it is a finite tool used to teach mankind the knowledge of Good and evil.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1Co 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.

Can it be you that finds it hard to accept these simple statements. "abolished death", "last enemy destroyed", "no more death"..l, "cast into lake of fire", "second death"

these statements in and of themselves are convincing that death,hell and all enemies against God and his Christ are finite and have a conclusive end.

nothing is eternal but God. man and all of Gods creations are finite. age abiding.

Me2

 

I am sorry, but both of you are pulling Scripture so far out of context. You are not paying a bit of attention to the list of scriptures located at the first of the list, plus you are ignoring every New Testament church belief since the Early Church Fathers.

I do not see any need to belabor this issue. You are both obviously not scholars based on the simplicity of your arguments and every single time I have tried to point something out you twist it around and then you pull scriptures so far out of context then it is beyond comprehension of even the soundest Christian.

If you want to believe in your little "burnt up" theory, go right ahead. There are going to be some suprises for you in the hereafter. If you want to post rebuttals, that is fine, but I'm not wasting my time coming back to this thread to read them.

Every single person who has posted except for two or three of you has defined "hell" in the way the Bible has intended it and the way it has been interpreted by every major denomination in the past. As I said, this is a relatively new doctrine started by Jehovah's Witnesses.

If you are Baptist, might I suggest that you find a church that believes in a "burnt up" theory like you so that you do not ruin the witness of that church. You yourself said that you do not believe what your church believes. That is the reason I question whether or not you are really Baptist. It is my right to ask that question.

Of course, the Bible warns of heretical beliefs occuring within the church near the end of time.

If what is occuring in America is any indication, then I do not think Jesus will tarry very long. If for some reason he does, it does not matter.

Seriously, I am quite surprised the board has allowed you to even argue this heresy on the board, but it is their perogative to allow discussion to certain levels.

I may be absolutely wrong, but if I were to guess, I would think you were students who know everything that adults have not been able to figure out because they are too stupid for your young and intelligent minds.

I'm out of here. You folks can comfort yourselves with a Jehovah's Witness theory. I think you are simply in denial and consciously you are fighting the truth because you cannot face it. If that is not the case, then you are really confused.

If you will notice most of the pastors have already left this thread because they see the hopelessness of arguing your issue with the way you pull scripture out of context. You have shown that you cannot even keep what happens on Earth seperate from what happens after we are dead. Your Bible arguments show a lack of scriptural comprehension and study.

Have fun,

Cheers---

 

First of all, the immortal soul is a farce.
1 Timothy 6:13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 WHO ALONE HAS IMMORTALITY, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Malachi 4:1-3
1 "For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the Lord of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves. 3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ASHES under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this," Says the Lord of hosts.
Obadiah 1:15-16
15 "For the day of the Lord upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head. 16 For as you drank on my holy mountain, So shall all the nations drink continually; Yes, they shall drink, and swallow, And THEY SHALL BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NEVER BEEN.
Daniel 12:1-2

1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

Maybe I am missing something. Taken in context what do these verses have to do with our soul not being immortal?

 

here we go i think this will help:

The Immortal Soul … Fact or Fiction?


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In general people are afraid of death. Some because they fear the unknown. Some because they simply do not want life to leave them. Because of this, immortality comes into play. People have, through the ages, gone to great pains and expense trying to capture immortality in one form or another. The pyramids in Egypt are a prime example of this. Yet, at this period of God's divine plan, we all come to death, and any graveyard proves this.

But is that all there is?

Most religions teach that you are born with a separate, immortal soul from the life force that allows your body to live. But let us look at what God teaches, and see if what we have been taught since early childhood, is the same as what God teaches in His word.

Since immortality is the subject of this discussion, let's start by understanding what that word means. Also since we are ultimately going to have to deal with the spiritual side of life, let us keep that in mind as we grasp the definition of the word "Immortal." Webster defines immortal as ... Im-mor-tal

1. Exempt from death (God)

2. Exempt from oblivion: imperishable.

Well, that seems clear enough, especially since we are told in the Word that "God always was and always will be." We are also told in His Word that God is everlasting.

Gen 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God. (KJV)

We serve an everlasting God, an immortal God. We as Christians understand that it is not possible for Jehovah to die. Since this is an understanding that all Christians have, we can take this to mean exactly what it says.

Yet, Christian religions have come up with doctrines that not only conflict with this, but also deny it. Doctrines such as the Trinity, that put forth the concept that God's Son was God Himself and yet He was killed at Calvary. Now no matter how we try to rationalize this doctrine, as three natures or a mystery or whatever, the fact remains that God is immortal and as such, it is not possible for Jehovah God to die. Any concept, in any form, that says, in any way, that God could die should ring the tilt bell in any reasoning Christian. Why? Because the very word, 'immortal,' means exempt from death. Imperishable! Since God himself has told us to make sure of all things, let us do that with the concept of an immortal soul.

Would it surprise you to learn that the gift of life, after death of the body, depends entirely and completely on YOU? Would it surprise you to learn that God, the Creator of this vast universe has offered this free gift of eternal life to any and all that ask for it? This is a consistent offer throughout the Word, but can be summed up in the scripture below.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (KJV)

The scripture above is telling us that through the offence of one (Adam), death came to all of mankind. However, through Christ, the free gift of eternal life came to all of mankind. Now, it cannot be claimed that the earthly bodies of men do not die. Everyone knows this is not true. What is argued by non- Christian religions above is the gift of life from Christ. Just the same, the non-Christian religions on earth all have a concept of immortality in their belief, even those that absorb reincarnation. This is true also of the theory of evolution, which has its own form of immortality to it, even though it has no purpose behind it. "The universe is there because it is there" does not explain a reason, or even relate to a reason, for the universe which, our eyes clearly tell us, truly is there.

The point to all this is, immortality of the soul is prevalent no matter what kind of religion one finds or examines. Well, one might ask, could they all be wrong? Let us examine the word for a clearer understanding of this. Let us examine the word to see if earthly religions could be wrong on this point.

Since we now know that immortality means one who cannot die, what, then, does the word "Soul" mean? The word soul is a translation of the Hebrew word "Nephish" which literally means the ability to live (Strong's Dictionary). However, you will not find a single scripture in the Bible that uses the two words 'immortal soul' together. You will not find a scripture in the Bible that supports the concept of an immortal soul. But, you can in the Word of God, find scripture that denies this concept of a human immortal soul in mortal man.

Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker? (KJV)

And while we are speaking of the maker, or creator, the word states God is the only immortal being there is.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (KJV)

Yet in spite of what the word says, religion tells us there is a portion of mortal man that is immortal. The concept of an immortal soul hinges on what people conceive as a difference between the undeniably mortal body and the life force that causes that mortal body to function in the manner we are all familiar with. The question here is what that difference is, if any. To really understand what has just been said, let us go back to Adam in the garden of Eden.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)

Now, notice the above scripture is saying, "Man became a living soul." It does not say he was given a soul, but that he became a living soul. It doesn't specify that Adam became a living soul but that "man" used in its generic form became a living soul. Just the same, man became that living soul by the breath of life from God. (You might also notice here that this breath of life to Adam, which God gave, has been a free gift right from the start.) Just the same, it is this breath of life that man perceives as the soul. Also, it might be noted, the body of Adam, without this breath of life, would have decayed right back to the dust it came from; which is exactly what happens to a lifeless body today. It is therefore evident that it is this "Breath of Life" that actually causes us to breathe, think, and function as living human beings. Now, we can ask, was this breath of life, we call a soul, given as and meant to be immortal. We can find out how God answers that question at Gen 2:17:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (KJV)

Now this is an incontestable statement by the Almighty Himself. This breath of life was not meant to be immortal, or God would not have said that it could die. Just the same, it means something else also. It means that that breath of life did not have to die. It means that Nephesh, soul, or breath of life could go on eternally in Adam providing he did not eat from the forbidden fruit. But man did eat from that forbidden fruit, and just as God said he would, Adam died. Not only that, but as the scriptures will show, Adam died the very day he ate from that tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

Now, religion has come up with the concept that since Adam lived to be 930 years old (Gen 5:5), this must have meant that it was his soul that died that day. However, we know that if his soul, or breath of life, had died at the time he ate from that fruit, then his body would have decayed into dust long before those 930 years had expired. The answer is given to us in 2 Peter 3:8 "that a thousand years are but a day in God's time. And a day but a thousand years." Therefore, in the eyes of God, Adam died the very day he ate from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil- in fact, he died the very day he was born. You might also note here that God, in his mercy, allowed Adam to live out that day almost to its end.

But what about the soul of Adam, you may ask? What happened to the breath of life Adam was given? The Word of God answers this also in an unequivocal statement from the Almighty.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (KJV)

There is nothing complicated about the scriptures above. They are clear, plain, and conclusive. Now this leaves the fact that either God is wrong or religion is wrong. Just as with Adam and Eve that decision is yours to make. But also ask yourself one other thing in this. Wasn't Satan lying when he told Eve:

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (KJV)


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Christ and Eternal life!

What does this promise mean and how does it apply to what we have just learned?

That resurrection was accomplished, shown, and stated throughout the Bible is well documented in the Word.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. (KJV)

That Christ has told us over and over that He holds out the promise of eternal life is also well documented in the Word.

John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (KJV)

In short, the words 'eternal life' mean you do not have to die but can live eternally, forever.

If, on the other hand, you were already born with an immortal soul that cannot die, what does this promise of eternal life from Jesus Christ mean?

In truth, if your soul could not die, it would have no meaning at all.

But, even more importantly than anything else, if the religious concept of an immortal soul were true ...

Why would God be telling us it wasn't, in the above Scriptures?

In the end, you have to answer exactly the same question Adam and Eve had to answer:

Do I believe the word of God, or Satan?

 

If one does not believe Hell is eternal then what do they believe? Do they believe it is temporal? Does that mean we live in Hell on earth?

The scripture is quite clear about the fact that Hell is eternal.

 

In order for us to debate this issue we will need to define some terms and to do that we need to see what scripture uses these words to mean in context.

Lets determine what the definition of the word "fire" really means in scripture. If Hell is a firery place, then why throw fire into a lake of fire? Throwing fire into fire will not cause a death to the first fire (2nd Death). Rev. 20

And why would throwing death into the lake of fire be called a 2nd death? These only make sense when we read the earlier terms of the word fire in it's proper meaning from scripture. Looking at all uses of the word "fire" in the NT will give us a very clear understanding of the meaning when used with hell or death passages.

First, read each fire in context to the passage and please resist "adding" meaning to the word Fire from what was drilled into your head by uneducated Sunday School teachers and Hell type Movies.

Pay very close attention to James 3:6 where we see word for word the meaning of fire in hell.


LVB Matthew 3:11
11. ``With water I baptize those who repent of their sins; but someone else is coming, far greater than I am, so great that I am not worthy to carry his shoes! He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Here we have a fire that is "purifying" a newly saved person. We will see in later verses how fire "purifies" gold. To purify gold it is actually "destroying" inpure elements found in low quality gold. It "separates" the lower elements from the higher quality gold. So far later definition of fire supports that the meaning we should attribute to this baptismal act is to separate the natural man from each of us, it can also "destroy" the natural man, and it purifies our spirit and soul.

So far, fire can be defined as "destruction, purification, and separates" good from bad.


LVB Matthew 3:11
11. ``With water I baptize those who repent of their sins; but someone else is coming, far greater than I am, so great that I am not worthy to carry his shoes! He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

LVB Matthew 3:12
12. He will separate the chaff from the grain, burning the chaff with never-ending fire, and storing away the grain.''


...never ending destruction is an attribute of fire. It can be read never-ending destruction or purification or separeatness. Since this fire is found in hell (inside the 1st death), we know that it is an ongoing, never-ending process of destruction that is occuring that can never end unless God destroys it. Which he will in the 2nd death (lake of fire).[/]

LVB Matthew 5:22
22. But I have added to that rule, and tell you that if you are only angry, even in your own home, you are in danger of judgment! If you call your friend an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.

Here we see clearly that this "destruction" occurs in a place called hell.


LVB Matthew 7:19
19. So the trees having the inedible fruit are chopped down and thrown on the fire.

Here, trees are "destroyed" in the fire with the implication this is what will happen to evil men.


LVB Matthew 13:49-50
49. That is the way it will be at the end of the world--the angels will come and separate the wicked people from the godly,
50. casting the wicked into the fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The event of casting the wicked into the fire is the cause of weeping and gnashing of teeth, it says nothing about continued weeping and torment. So does the torment happen right before the casting, or during the casting, or for a short period after being cast in? It just doesn't give us enough information. It can be implied that because there were holy witnesses to this event and the torment happened during their witness, it could well be a short term torment, otherwise the would not have been the need for the witness'.

LVB Matthew 25:41
41. Then I will turn to those on my left and say, `Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.


This verse sets us clearly at the 2nd death lake of fire since that is the fires that the devil is thrown into. But again, no mention that these evil ones will suffer forever. It further starts to clairify that the never ending eternal fire is clearly for the devil to suffer in, not man. (non-Biblical side note: Surely evil man can't be as bad as Satan and receive the same punishment)


LVB Mark 9:43
43. ``If your hand does wrong, cut it off. Better live forever with one hand than be thrown into the unquenchable fires of hell with two!

LVB Mark 9:47-48
47. ``And if your eye is sinful, gouge it out. Better enter the Kingdom of God half blind than have two eyes and see the fires of hell,
48. where the worm never dies, and the fire never goes out--

Again, fire that never ends... meaning that destruction will continue in hell until the 2nd death where everything is brought back to life for final judgment at the 2nd death.

LVB Luke 17:29
29. until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and brimstone rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

Classic example of fire "destroying" sinners.

LVB 1 Corinthians 3:13
13. There is going to come a time of testing at Christ's Judgment Day to see what kind of material each builder has used. Everyone's work will be put through the fire so that all can see whether or not it keeps its value, and what was really accomplished.

Again, here is Christ "purifing, separating, and destroying" to see what is left... the good.
LVB Hebrews 12:29
29. For our God is a consuming fire.
Even God is a destructive force

LVB James 3:6
6. And the tongue is a flame of fire. It is full of wickedness, and poisons every part of the body. And the tongue is set on fire by hell itself, and can turn our whole lives into a blazing flame of destruction and disaster.

Here is a very clear definition of the word fire from hell. It is clearly meant to mean a "destructive force".

LVB James 5:3
3. The value of your gold and silver is dropping fast, yet it will stand as evidence against you, and eat your flesh like fire. That is what you have stored up for yourselves, to receive on that coming day of judgment.

Classic example of fire as a "destructive" element on the flesh as it consumes it into nothingness. It is paired with the day of judgement to prove that the fire is a destructive force, not a tormental force for suffering.

LVB 1 Peter 1:7
7. These trials are only to test your faith, to see whether or not it is strong and pure. It is being tested as fire tests gold and purifies it--

Here fire is again purifying gold, it destroys the bad or base.

LVB 2 Peter 3:7
7. And God has commanded that the earth and the heavens be stored away for a great bonfire at the judgment day, when all ungodly men will perish.

Just one of the many verses that uses the word perish for the evil ones on judgment day, not eternal torment.

LVB 2 Peter 3:10
10. The day of the Lord is surely coming, as unexpectedly as a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise and the heavenly bodies will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be burned up.

LVB Jude 1:7
7. And don't forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, all full of lust of every kind including lust of men for other men. Those cities were destroyed by fire and continue to be a warning to us that there is a hell in which sinners are punished.

Here is a direct transfer of the meaning of "Punish" in hell with the meaning of simple "destruction by fire". It can't get any clearer that this folks.

LVB Revelation 14:10-11
10. must drink the wine of the anger of God; it is poured out undiluted into God's cup of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulphur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
11. The smoke of their torture rises forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the Creature and his statue, and have been tattooed with the code of his name.
here, only a small select group is tormented forever, earlier defined as the devil and his demons. Here it is made clear that it is the Beast and his followers.

LVB Revelation 14:18
18. Just then the angel who has power to destroy the world with fire, shouted to the angel with the sickle,

LVB Revelation 18:8
8. Therefore the sorrows of death and mourning and famine shall overtake her in a single day, and she shall be utterly consumed by fire; for mighty is the Lord who judges her.''

notice the word "consumed" by fire, meaning "total destruction", not eternal torment.

LVB Revelation 19:20
20. And the Evil Creature was captured, and with him the False Prophet, who could do mighty miracles when the Evil Creature was present--miracles that deceived all who had accepted the Evil Creature's mark, and who worshiped his statue. Both of them--the Evil Creature and his False Prophet--were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire that burns with sulphur.

LVB Revelation 20:9-10
9. They will go up across the broad plain of the earth and surround God's people and the beloved city of Jerusalem on every side. But fire from God in heaven will flash down on the attacking armies and consume them.
10. Then the devil who had betrayed them will again be thrown into the Lake of Fire burning with sulphur where the Creature and False Prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

List exactly who will be tormented for ever, just the same small group that was twice refered to in prior scripture


LVB Revelation 20:14-15
14. And Death and Hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death--the Lake of Fire.
15. And if anyone's name was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire.

So finally after all this, hell and death " meaning all forms of "destruction" are ended by themselves being thrown in the lake of fire. The final and now only destruction. The only things that are still alive in the lake of fire would be thoses entities that were granted or had eternal life, Satan, his demons, and those people who in the last days, took his sign and worshipped him. All other humans are "consumed or destroyed by the fire of the 2nd death.

 

Please don’t waste my time with your nonsense. It is clear that you have a mashed potato concept of scripture. If you mix corn and potatoes you will have a colored mess that is not corn or potatoes. That is what you are doing with scripture.

You have turned on the hose and given me a machine gun approach hoping that somehow you might hit the target.

Do some study without proof-texting. It might help a lot if you first take a look at the historical context of the book you are quoting. Read an OT survey and NT survey book first. What issue of the Watchtower do you pretend to get your information from? What Kingdom Hall do you attend? What have you been smoking? You seem to be rather proud of the idea that you have a corner on the market nobody else does. I have one verse for you. It is found in 1 Cor. 8:2, “If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know;”

You don’t even know the difference between Gehenna, Hades and Sheol. So start learning instead of wasting other people’s time with your ignorance.

 

qb, this is the reason I just gave up. I have never seen someone pull scriptures out of context, nor have I seen such poor scholarship of the Bible.

When I was in college, I knew MORE than anybody. I was getting into Newspaper and Radio news reporting. I was going to change the world. I was going to expose corruption. I got sued in civil court. I grew up quickly.

 

I know well what these are including the historical roots and usage of each. They also don't help win your argument. Biblical Scholars can't even agree to their relavance or meaning. And that's because they can't make them work with an eternal tormenting type hell.

You have no idea how to provide the same level of evidence for the meaning of hell as used in context that I presented. So now you are trying to argue definitions without even showing how the definition will change my evidence from scripture or define your argument without accepting the Catholic version of Hell.

SO....
Please explain the difference between Sheol and Hades and Gehenna without sounding like a Catholic. Once you try, you will fail at finding any meaning that would not be better understood by reading the single word "hell" in context in the King James Version.