Is Hope of Eternal Life Bound to Faith?

I know of no text telling us of the "hope" of damnation.

As Scripture says "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ to be recompensed for the actual deeds done in the body both good and evil". 2Cor 5:8-10.

Paul speaks of that "future" when "According to my GOSPEL God WILL judge the secrets of ALL men through the man Christ Jesus" Romans 2:13-16.

And we SEE stages in that future judgment in Daniel 7 and in Rev 20.

Just as scripture says in Romans 11 "HE is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not CONTINUE in unbelief".

The Bible says clearly we are "saved in hope".

If the sections of scripture listed above have been removed from your Bible so that now you only find them in the Watch Tower -- then I suppose that in your case - your statement must be true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Do you honestly think that Paul is speaking of condemnation to hell about those widows that the church would consider to support in a financial way? That seems like a very strange outlook to me.
Let's look at the entire context:

1 Timothy 5:3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.
--This is where the topic of widows begins. As a general rule they are to be given honor or "respect." "A widow indeed," or a true widow is one who had no means of support but is wholly dependant upon the Lord for her every need. She doesn't even have a living relative to rely upon.

1 Timothy 5:4-5 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.
5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.
--Here is a second class of widows.
They are widows that have relatives--children, nephews, perhaps grandchildren or others. The Bible teaches: "Honor thy father and thy mother." Children (even when they grow older), have a responsibilty to take care of their parents. It is a poor testimony to the Christian faith to speak of Christianity, and then to neglect one's faith by neglecting their own family.

1 Timothy 5:6-7 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.
--Here the widow that lives in pleasure is put in contrast to the Godly widow. Is she unsaved? Probably not, but no doubt badly backslidden. She is dead as far as her communion with God is concerned.
Timothy is to warn such widows living in pleasure and is also to teach Christians to care for those who are related to them.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
--This is a serious charge--failing to provide for your own. Most societies that I have seen (in eastern cultures) have extended families, not the nuclear system that we have. There may be several generations living under one roof. If the head of the household does not see that all in the family are provided for then he is worse than an infidel. The responsibility lies on him. Often that responsibility is not the oldest or grandparent, but the eldest son, the wage-earner. A Christian can bring reproach upon the name of the Lord in a way that an unbeliever cannot.

1 Timothy 5:9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,
--Paul now begins to set forth guidelines, as to who the church should support financially as a widow.
1. She should be at least 60 years of age.
2. The wife of one man--the same requirement of a deacon or bishop (pastor). Her married life would have to be without reproach.

1 Timothy 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
3. A reputation characterized by good works.
4. If she had children, they also must reflect her testimony of child-rearing.
5. She must have shown hospitality to others, to strangers.
6. Washing the feet of visitors was the duty of a slave, and would show the quality of humility.
7. Be kind--showing relief to the afflicted and other acts of mercy.
8. Diligent in every good work.

This is the type of widow that the church would give financial support to.

1 Timothy 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
--It would be a mistake to support the younger widows. There is a good chance that they would marry again. The desire to marry could become so strong that they could end up marrying an unbeliever. Paul speaks of this as "growing wanton against Christ." If this should happen, and the church would have already be supporting such an one, then it would bring reproach upon the name of Christ.

1 Timothy 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
--The word here has no reference to eternal perdition. It simply means judgment, the judgment for casting off her first faith. At one time she professed great loyalty to Christ. But now, after made a widow, and young enough to marry again, she marries someone who does not love Christ. She forgets her initial love for Christ and goes off with an unbeliever, unfaithful to her Saviour.
Paul does not criticize widows for not marrying. He encourages them to do so (vs.14), only in the Lord. There are Biblical principles to follow in marriage.

1 Timothy 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
--What happens when the church assumes financial responsibility of a younger widow?
1. It encourages them to be idle. (They can work--Lydia was a seller of purple).
2. They may become gossips and busybodies.

1 Timothy 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
--Here is a general principle:
Younger widows should marry, bear children, guide the house, and live above reproach. In that way they will not give any chance for the devil to make false accusations against them or to speak reproachfully.

1 Timothy 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
--Paul speaks from experience. He has already seen this happen. Some have already turned aside for not following his advice.

1 Timothy 5:16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.
--Paul now again comes back to the responsibility of the family or relatives of the widows. The believing men and women of the church have the responsibility of caring for their own, not the church. The family is the primary care-giver not the church.
Verses 3-16 gives instruction to the church what it must do for widows under certain circumstances. Primary responsibility always falls on the family.

 

You must have overlooked it. Here it is again.....

You had said damnation is condemnation....

But for the record I used scripture which speaks of "Krima" (gk) 2917 in Strong's. Sometimes translated damnation and sometimes translated condemnation and a few others as well. Therefore the scriptures I used were very accurate to your request.

The gospel you outlined was not that of the Christian Holy Bible, it was pretty much what the JW's teach, that no one knows if they will be saved until judgment day. This is as Paul put it "another gospel" or "another Jesus".

Still waiting for an answer, Can you tell us what commitment the Christian widow would have made to Christ in order to be provided for by the church?


God Bless! :wavey:

 

Good outline DHK :thumbs:

But HP cannot accept the context of this or else he must humbly admit he is wrong on this particular passage and therefore must entertain the thought that just maybe he is wrong about other passages!

Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (Jas 4:6)

Why don't you accept the truth about this passage HP and drop it from your list of examples of losing salavtion and just go on to fight the battle in a more favorable part of scripture for you?

However, i must warn you, I have studied every passage there is on this subject and OSAS remains standing each and every time. If you are really serious about knowing the truth and willing to keep everything in context, then you have a chance to understand the fullness of God's grace.

God Bless! :godisgood:

 

I have all my bible and just because some do not understand what they are reading does not mean I am missing verses.

Try another angle Bob!

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

As Scripture says "We must ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ to be recompensed for the actual deeds done in the body both good and evil". 2Cor 5:8-10.

Paul speaks of that "future" when "According to my GOSPEL God WILL judge the secrets of ALL men through the man Christ Jesus" Romans 2:13-16.

And we SEE stages in that future judgment in Daniel 7 and in Rev 20.

Just as scripture says in Romans 11 "HE is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not CONTINUE in unbelief".

The Bible says clearly we are "saved in hope". (Col 1)

 

Do you mean "final standing before God" as to hell verses saved?

If so, here it is..... 1Cr 11:30 For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Still waiting for an answer, Can you tell us what commitment the Christian widow would have made to Christ in order to be provided for by the church?


God Bless! :wavey:

 

Let's see,

So Paul is saying do not take care of the young Christian widow because if you do she could stop having faith in Christ to save her.

And this makes perfect sense to you?

This is what you must conclude from the passage if you are to stick to your position on damnation to hell.

God Bless! raying:

 

And you write this about OSAS believers.......

You show no desire to honor God's word in proper context by plucking a verse out and making it into your own interpretations. 'Let's ignore the obvious because in this context it does not fit my preconceptions of losing salvation'....or so it might appear.

God Bless! raying:

 

Nowhere in Scripture does it teach that the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from any believer. Does God lie? God gives a gift of eternal life at the point when He gives the Holy Spirit at salvation. Eternal can never become temporary. If it could God would be a liar, wouldn't he?

Why have you read so much into this passage that is not there. That is the tactic of J.W.'s and the RCC's. I expected more from you.

1 Timothy 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
The word "damnation" means "judgment." It is the judgment from the church. Remember Paul is writing to Timothy about order in the local church. It is a Pastoral Epistle.
Secondly he mentions their "first faith," in the same way that Jesus mentions,
Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Jesus was writing to Christians. He was writing to the pastors of seven churches composed of believers. These believers had left their first love, in the same way that these widows had left their first "faith" or the love of it. Of course if you take the verse out of its context you can make it say anything you want. Read my previous post where I explained every verse on this passage and it will all make sense to you--or at least it should.

 

1. Does one trust Timothy to admit into the membership of the church of Ephesus believers only?
2. Did Paul trust Timothy in this matter?
3. Paul was writing to Timothy about church matters which inherently speaks about believers, and not unbelievers, and therefore there is no reason to take the stance that these are unbelievers.

I trust that if Satan should turn you aside from the straight and narrow path, that some Godly person would come and direct you back to it. It could happen to anyone. If you don't think it could never happen to you, then you have a pride issue. Satan attacks everyone. He walks around as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. We are told to: Resist the devil. Obviously he is a dangerous force to be reckoned with.

Some had already turned aside. It happens all the time. I have seen it too. Believers leave the church. They stop coming to church. They get caught up in the things of the world. They get backslidden in their lives. Do I automatically write them off as unsaved? No. Of course not.

 

And your point is??
Rev.2:5 was written to the church at Ephesus in the first century. I doubt if that particular church is still there. But I doubt if all those believers are in Hell either.
So what is your point?