Is Israel special?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ajg1959, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. ajg1959

    ajg1959
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    On another thread a poster stated that we should not treat Israel any different than any other nation. I beleive that is biblical that we should ally ourselves with Israel and even protect her from attcks from the Arab nations that want to destroy her. I am going to give my reason for this, and then I would like to ask for comment from you folks about whether you agree or disagree and why.

    Every other nation on earth was created by man, except for Israel, it was created by God Himself.

    Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
    Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
    Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    Notice verse 3, and the promise to bless those that bless Israel, and to curse them that curse Israel. I beleive that this is applies to us today just as it did when it was written.

    There are many more references about Israel being God's nation and people, but I cited this one because it is the first one mentioned.

    How do you see this issue, and how does it apply to our country today?

    AJ
     
  2. Linda64

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    Amen Bro AJ! I found 199 references to the phrase "God of Israel" in 199 verse in the Old Testament. God has not forsaken His people Israel (that would be national Israel...the tiny country that sits by the Mediterranean Sea surrounded by Arab nations.) The Abrahamic Covenant (Gen. 12:1-3; 15:18-21) will be fulfilled in the Millennium.
     
  3. Magnetic Poles

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    Actually, the modern state of Israel was created in 1948 by a provisional government acting unilaterally after the Arab League rejected a two-state plan endorsed by the United Nations.
     
  4. nunatak

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    When you say "we" should ally ourselves with Israel, whom are "we?"

    The USA?

    The universal body of Christ, i.e., the Church?

    Baptists?
     
  5. KenH

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    Is the modern day political state of Israel special? No.

    It should be treated the same way that we treat any of our other allies.
     
  6. Grasshopper

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    1. Why does Gen. 12 apply today but Matthew 23 doesn't?

    2. Old Covenant Israel was a shadow of the true Israel, the Church.

    3. Someday, perhaps soon if those like John Hagee have their way, we will have this war that dispinsationalist seem to want so bad then perhaps when we're all still here to clean up the mess, the result will once and for all do away with this perverse view that we should defend Israel at all cost. An Israel by the way who is mostly agnostic and Messiah rejectors.

    Let us support modern Israel for geo-political reasons, not supposed eschatoogical ones.
     
  7. Jerome

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    "Clearly again, in Zechariah 12:10 it is stated that the day will come when the Jews "shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son." In the day when Israel shall be saved they shall look upon Jesus and know that in His first coming He was their true Messiah. Again, it is not only the Old Testament which promises that the land of Palestine will once more belong to the Jews, but in the New Testament, in Luke 21:24, we are told that Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles only until the time of the Gentiles shall be fulfilled. Therefore, the Word tells us that the day will come when all Israel shall be saved, and the Jews will look upon Jesus as their true Messiah, and also that the Promised Land will be theirs once more. It is not only for the past, not only for the present, but also for the future, that we who are now Christ's should love the Jew."
    ---written by Francis Schaeffer, 1943.
     
  8. donnA

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    The Israel of the O.T. does not exist anymore.
     
  9. Brother Bob

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    Are all God's people special?? We are neither Jew or Gentile anymore but the children of God.
     
    #9 Brother Bob, Jun 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2008
  10. Linda64

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    For those who believe that O.T. Israel doesn't exist, would you mind telling us what is the country in the Middle East with the Mediterranean Sea to the west, Egypt to the south, Jordan and Syria to the east, and Lebanon to the north? And...who are the people living there? And why shouldn't the United States recognize that country? I know the Arabs don't, but they sure do like to fight over that "unrecognized" piece of real estate...believing one day that they just might "push" it out into the Mediterranean Sea.
     
  11. lbaker

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    That would be the man-made state of Israel, created in 1948, as mentioned earlier. God's dealings with Israel as a chosen nation ended in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple as discussed in Mark 13, Matthew 24, etc.

    ;-)
     
  12. dan e.

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    Exactly my thoughts.

    Israel having the right to be their own nation is a human rights issue...not an eschatological issue. WE are Israel. God is not about human race, or ethnicity, He is about relationship. It was the same in the OT, those found to be in relationship with God are Israel.

    John Hagee is a wacko.
     
  13. donnA

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    A country that was created in 1948, not the same country as the O.T., that one ceased to exist.
     
  14. ccrobinson

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    Is there somebody in this thread advocating that the U.S. shouldn't recognize Israel as a country? I've missed it.

    I believe it's in our best interest to ally ourselves with Israel, just as I believe it's in our best interest to ally ourselves with the UK. I don't believe that we should defend Israel any more or less than we would any other ally. Besides, Israel does a pretty good job of defending herself from what I can tell.

    If Israel is still the "chosen people" of God, doesn't this suggest that God will still protect her? If so, then why do we need to step in and defend Israel more than we would any other ally?

    After 60 years of being an ally with Israel, I believe that we should continue our relationship with Israel as an ally, just as we should continue being an ally of the UK.
     
  15. Cutter

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    The promise God made to Abraham will last for how long?
    According to some on this board 70 AD or as long as Israel can keep their nationality and sovereignty in the midst of their enemies. According to the Bible, God made a promise to Abraham.
    Genesis 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
    15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, [then] shall thy seed also be numbered.

    The Lord keeps His promises, although the Israelites have had to suffer dispersion because of disobedience and have had to fight to remain a nation.

    Even in the end, God remembers His promise.
    Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth.
    Why a new earth unless there was a need for it because of a past promise.
     
  16. pinoybaptist

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    OT Israel is a national Israel with earthly boundaries. The TRUE Israel, however, has always existed, even before national Israel was created by God.
    The TRUE Israel is spiritual, without boundaries, worldwide, scattered like fireflies in a world darkened by sin and error, spread out like salt that preserves the earth.
    The eternal promise is to the TRUE Israel, not to the national one.
    The national one was used by God for His purposes, and through which His Son was manifested into the world, and to whom His oracles were given in the Old Testament.
    The national Israel also served as an object lesson for the TRUE Israel, where the latter can see how God dealt and deals with His people, and where we see ourselves, the TRUE Israel, mirrored in Israel's disobedience, and God's faithfulness to His people displayed.
    Politically, it is expedient for the United States and other free nations to ally itself with Israel, but to remain a faithful ally to Israel because of eschatology or theology is folly.
     
  17. Cutter

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    What do you base this on? Was Abraham the father of the true Israel? No, he is and was the father of the Nation of Israel. I do not agree with your statement.
     
  18. tinytim

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    "Thy Seed" Is this the same seed that God mentioned to Eve?
    If so, this is talking about the singular "Seed" ... Jesus Christ.

    Through Jesus (the seed) we are grafted into this promise.
    We are the children of Abraham according to Paul.

    True Israel recognizes whom their rightful king is... and it is not the current Prime minister of today's nation of Israel....

    Now that being said, looking over history, and events from history, I still feel there is something special about the current nation of Israel... And we need to stand by her tirelessly...

    UNLESS....

    She starts acting in ways that are deemed as unbiblical.

    Which can be interpretted differently.

    Polilitically speaking, Right now, she is a very good friend, and we need all the friends we can get in that part of the world.

    As a sovereign nation, she has the right to protect herself and her interests... And as a friend of hers we have the responsibility to protect her when people like Ima-dang-nutjob makes threats to wipe her from the face of the Earth...
    (along with us!)

    Most of the world automatically thinks of us when they think of Israel.
     
  19. Cutter

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    Let me get this straight. So you are saying that when God made a promise to Abraham and his (thy) seed, he was actually making a promise to all the seed of Adam and Eve?
     
  20. tinytim

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    NOooo....

    Gen 3:15
    (15)
    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    This is the first prophecy of the Messiah in the Bible...
    The "seed" it's referring to is Jesus.

    See how the word "it" (singular) points back to the word "seed"...


    Therefore, if the "seed" has the same meaning as here in this promise to Eve, then it is referring to Jesus.

    And if so, since we are in Christ, it refers to us...
    And when he comes back to reign from Jerusalem, the promise to Abraham will then be fulfilled...

    Only the ones that believe that Jesus is the Messiah will receive that promise...

    Being born a jew means nothing..
    Being born in today's Israel means nothing...
    They must be born again before they receive this promise...

    This promise is tied to the "Seed" of Israel... Jesus Christ.
     
    #20 tinytim, Jun 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2008

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