1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is Israel special?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ajg1959, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tiny, with all due respect, you are taking great liberties in stringing all of this together to reach the conclusion you choose to believe.
     
  2. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,136
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Abraham was the father of national Israel, in the sense that they all came from his loins.
    However, the father of the True Israel, is Jehovah God. See John 1:11-13.

    " He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

    His own, of course, was His kinsmen in the flesh, Israel, for Christ was a Jew, and the Creator of national Israel through Abraham's loins. In that sense, He was the "seed" promised to Abraham.

    The fact that there is a Spiritual Israel besides the national one is brought home by Paul in his discourse in Romans 9. National Israel has no eternal security, Spiritual Israel, or the true Israel, does, through Christ.

    The role of national Israel in as far as God's purposes for His plan goes is done, over.

    The Savior has come, the prophets have come, Jehovah has spoken His oracles, and everything that needs to be written for the instruction of His people, both Jew and Gentile (the True Israel) has been written down and compiled into that book we now call the Bible. Nothing to be added, nothing to be taken away. (The Bible was not written for the benefit of mankind, but for the benefit and instruction of God's people only).

    P.S.

    To view national Israel as something other than what it is in the economy of God is nearly akin to idolatry.
    The Christian's gratitude and loyalty must be to Christ, the Creator, not national Israel, the creation.
     
    #22 pinoybaptist, Jun 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2008
  3. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, the nationality and sovereignty of Israel are a moot subject and they no longer play a role in Biblical prophesy, both spiritual and literal? There is nothing special about Israel and as far as God is concerned, they are viewed and thought of on the same scale, as any other country in the world?
     
  4. dan e.

    dan e. New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a lovely, biblical way to put it.
     
  5. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did they SEE the new future earth that they were going to get? Or will this present earth remain forever afterall?

    Romans 4:16-- For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
     
  6. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,136
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Baptist

    The OP's question was: Is Israel special ?

    I guess someone should have asked: special in what way, and to whom ?

    The nationality and sovereignty of Israel is and should not be a moot subject. Israel is a nation, sovereign in its own right, and recognized as such by the United States.
    In addition it is closely allied to the United States, both politically and ideologically, and as long as they are so, then the United States should continue to respect that sovereignty.
    I do reject the notion, though, that we must stand beside Israel at all times and in any situation because Israel was special to God and still special to God, and will continually be special to God.
    What if Israel were suddenly ruled by a maniac who decreed that God spoke to him and oredered the annihilation of all arabic and muslim peoples in Israel ?
    Will you, for example, personally support that just because you think Israel is and will continue to be special to God ?

    On the spiritual side, I personally have not yet dived into such a conclusion as to say that Israel is a total castaway now.

    Remember that God has shown many examples wherein those nations that have shown kindness to Israel were in one way or another rewarded or protected.

    Since Israel was an instrument in His hands, I do not think it will be consistent with His character to treat Israel as a castaway rag.
    No.

    I do think that, just as the "unbelieving husband or wife is sanctified by the believing spouse" Israel is still under God's protection and care.

    Also, I have (please note that I use this personal pronoun because I cannot speak for others here), found, studying the existence of both national and spiritual Israel in the Bible, that the notion that the Lord Jesus Christ will return to Israel, and that Israel will rule the nations in a Millenium with Christ at the head of a literal governement is not rightly dividing the word of God.

    Of course, you and everyone are entitled to how you view these things.
     
  7. Cutter

    Cutter New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    This present earth will be the new earth.
     
  8. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Like your present car will be your new car?
     
  9. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0

    Could be!!!
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    9,796
    Likes Received:
    700
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Please explain how the singular "Seed" will be as the dust of the earth (countless) [verse 16]?
     
Loading...