is it A MUST That Your pastor/Church Teach/Preach Calvinism?

There is just one truth.

 

Osage is taking the same position as those who would force the KJV on us as the only legitimate English Bible or those who would force dispensational interpretation as the only legitimate eschatology.....

 

I don't care about what translation you use or what eschatology you think is correct. What matters is the gospel and the gospel isn't correctly presented unless it is presented the way calvinism presents it.

 

It's my conviction that all Calvinists are wrong concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

 

So I guess the apostolic fathers and just about everyone didn't even preach the gospel until Augustine came along to straighten them out, uh?

Even Calvinistic scholar Loraine Boettner readily admits that the "Calvinistic" view of Predestination can't be found until Augustine in nearly the fifth century, and that mostly affected Western thought.

So, I suppose all those believers prior to Augustine and those affected by more Eastern thought just didn't understand the true gospel.

 

It also could be noted that very few after Augustine taught the Calvinistic doctrine of Predestination either:

Too bad so many people went without the gospel. Maybe there really will be only 144,000 saved.

 

Thats odd...most reform are NOT King James. But your correct, they want you to fit a mold. The big argument there is baptism. you will never get a theological discussion. however there isn't the incessant Calvinist/Non Calv BS. You start that discussion & your out the door. I think many Calvinists in here are getting disgusted & leaving for more comfortable forums though.
Can't say I blame them.

 

You're going to find that there will be times when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk food - catchy opinions that tickle their fancy. 2 Timothy 4:3 MSG

 

See, now we totally agree:laugh:

 

Jesus Christ, Paul, all the apostles, the entire bible teaches calvinism. Augustine is the first extrabiblical theologian to systematize it Luther and Calvin expanded. It just got calvin's name because he wrote the institutes.

 

So says you, but that wasn't the point I was making.

Again, not the point. The point was that there were generations of church history and large groups in many areas that believed and professed Jesus as Lord and Savior but didn't even know of the Calvinistic views and you would have us to believe they didn't know the gospel. That is absurd.

 

They either didn't know it or didn't know it correctly.

There were many centuries where the Roman Catholic Church held christianity hostage.

 

Wow!

Those foolish people with a no name theology who just trust in Jesus and not Calvinism are just out of luck until they do right, because it is a self-salvation? Is that where you heading with this? What I am seeing by what you post is they rejected the gospel, by rejecting Calvinism. You giving them the word of truth, so they are without excuse right?

 

It just a good thing Augustine and others like him came along to complete the revelation by giving us the full gospel, right?

 

Reformed Baptist said...

Wow.

A point blank denial of the scriptural truth that the Holy Spirit is ultimetly our teacher.


John 16:13...

These ultra calvinists are something else, and not in a good way.

They are just [Edited - No personal attacks are permitted]

(Not all of them, and not all the time..but some of them, most of the time) :tear:

AiC

 

Before Augustine became a Christian he was a "hearer" of the Gnostics. He did not have the self-discipline to be of the "elect." The Gnostics believe there was the elect, the hearers, and the lost or un-elect. Augustine brought this erroneous belief into Christianity, jettisoning the "hearer' group as it could not be fit into scripture, and then found and twisted scripture to fit his Gnostic belief in the elect and the non-elect. Calvin was greatly influenced by Augustine and, unfortunately, bought this erroneous idea into his systematic theology and this has caused much trouble within the Christian community since.

Augustine was a follower of Mani, a Gnostic.

Mani defined total depravity as:

Calvin defined total depravity as:

See the connection?

 

I'm not a historian either, but I can assure you that Spurgeon (1834-1892) lives a long time after the era when people were put to death or exiled for disagreeing with "the church".

I'm not sure what you meant by "the church" - the local church (in Sprgeon's case, The Metroplitan Tabernacle for most of his pastoring life)? I don't think Spurgeon disagreed with that.

Baptist churches generally? Well, particularly towards the end of his life, Spurgeon was greatly saddened by what came to be known as the "Downgrade Controversy" which eventually resulted in him and his church withdrawing from the Baptist Union. This began because many of the churches in the Baptist Union (and other evangelical denominations too) were denying, or at least downgrading (dumbing down, as we would say today) such vital things as the authority of God's Word, the virgin birth, and the atonement. Clearly Spurgeon did not agree with such things, but he wasn't exiled or murdered.

The Church of England, the so-called "state church"? Yes, like all baptists, Spurgeon would have disagreed with the CofE on such things as baptism, church order, the separation of church and state, and much more. Yet he wasn't exiled or murdered.

 

RIGHT....now your getting it son. Surprises me how quickly your picking this all up! :laugh::thumbsup::godisgood:

 

May I address this, being in the FW camp? I hope its okay.

I would like to take this in another direction(for my post only, and not to derail this thread). Would it be okay for your pastor/moderator to preach FW? At my church, the pastor who preaches calvinism, will not be pastor for long. Why? We do not believe the scriptures that way, and therefore, for the harmony of our church, we wouldn't have a pastor that holds to calvinism. If the church isn't in harmony, how can the Light shine to a lost community? So for us to be in harmony, we must all agree...not on every little thing, but calvinsim, or not calvinism, rather, should be a major sticking point.

It would be like the church that has members who believe a christian can backslide/fall from grace and others that do not. After a while, this could bring tension to that church. So harmony is a core essential to "church health" if you ask me.

i am I AM's!!

Willis