Is it a sin for a man to touch a women to whom he is not married?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by 4His_glory, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    In a discussion in the BV forum. The statement was made that unmarried people should never embrace or kiss in anyway.

    I pointed out that in some cultures kissing on the cheek and even embracing are the acceptable and cultural and expected means of greeting.

    I was told that this is still wrong. What say ye?
     
  2. OldRegular

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    I say nonsense! Scripture says:

    1Corinthians 16:20. All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
    2Corinthians 13:12. Greet one another with an holy kiss.
    1Thessalonians 5:26. Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

    Now unless a Holy Kiss is one where you kiss your fingers and blow expecting the Holy Spirit to carry it somewhere I say nonsense.
     
  3. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    That was my thought as well.
    Here in Argentina we greet each other with a kiss to the cheek.
     
  4. annsni

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    This is definitely culture AND a person's own issues. I know some will not touch and I will not force a hug or kiss on them. I know some are more huggy than others. I am quite comfortable getting a kiss on the cheek and a hug from many of the men in church because they are my brothers. But there are others who, even though they are my brothers, I'm very uncomfortable with it - just because of an underlying something that's there. We've taught the girls to give "side hugs" to the boys, since this teen group are huggy. I think it works great.

    But for those in other cultures, kissing even on the lips is the norm - and I don't think that it's wrong - it's just their culture.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    I am not huggy-buggy. That is how I grew up in England and coming to Canada was no different. This huggy thing just cropped up in the last 30 years.

    To say I never hug is wrong because there have been times when I thought it appropriate,,For instance, after the death of someone's loved one. If I believed it to be a comfort to that person.

    Regarding greeting one another with an holy kiss is a form of greeting and the handshake does this quite well, thank you very much.

    In my culture, we don't even hug and kiss wife in public.

    Part of my feelings in this area has to being a single pastor and always keeping my physical distance from females in my churches. No chance for rumours. Be friendly to all, familiar with none. I was never accused of womanizing.

    It is not a question of sinning to do these things. I understand that people are different, around the world and even at home. I understand that cultures differ.

    If someone in church tried to hug me, I wouldn't make a huge fuss about it, but it is not my cup of tea. Stiff upper lip you know.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. annsni

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    Jim - You're so right in needing to be careful as a pastor with women. We're so careful in our church to be sure that there's no way to accuse anyone of anything. I've sat in counseling sessions with a pastor and a woman and I just sat reading a book. I was there to be a witness but honestly didn't listen to the dialogue. You absolutely can't be too careful.
     
  7. Brother Shane

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    I have yet to see a scripture that calls the exchange of unmarried men and women touching in appropriate places a sin.
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    I saw a title to an article online, in one of the news magazines I believe, entitled, "Is the hug replacing the handshake?" Hugging, kissing the cheek, the comfort zone varies from culture to cultural. I have been told by Chinese friends that their parents never said, "I love you," to them.

    Some cultures are very stoic when a person is in pain, others are very verbal. My wife used to go to an OBGYN, a woman, from another culture who told her that in her culture a person in great pain during childbirth will never said, "Yes, give me pain medicine," while people from another culture, I'll kee it un-named, would be screaming and crawling the wall even if they were only in moderate pain.

    Our culture controls us in many ways.
     
  9. Brother Shane

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    Regardless if it is cultural or not, the Bible is the final authority. Sadly, some Christians follow the cultural customs instead of doing what God would have us to do.
     
  10. 4His_glory

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    Some cultural practices are sinful but most are not. And for every Christian that uses culture as an excuse to sin there are probably two more who sin with their legalistic insistence that the western or american culture is biblical and others are not.
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    There is another culture that beats and kills their wives for disrespect of their husbands. Culture is not the standard for what Christians should do. Such thinking can lead to all kinds of errors.

    It is impossible for such folks to prove, from scripture, that any and all forms of touching are against the will of God. As it has been pointed out even the simplest of gestures may still be inappropriate for some people. Not everyone has pure intentions. Even given that it is unnecessary to avoid it all together.
     
  12. 4His_glory

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    I agree. The Bible trumps culture in such a case because it clearly condemns such behavior. Nobody here said that culture should be the standard of what Christians should do.

    But it is equally wrong to try to change a cultural practice when there is no clear biblical mandate that forbids it.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    Then "culture" is not a factor or relevant to whether it is right or wrong.
     
  14. Dr. Timo

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    a Godly touch

    I think the question calls for an answer about a touch that we aren't sure if it is Godly or not. I agree the times are different with this issue. Yet God's Word remains the same for all generations. I wouldn't say scripture prohibits certain touching or kissing for dating couples who aren't married yet. I also agree we have to be careful in Church as some are more huggy that others. I prefer to shake hands but some say put that away and just hug me. Just some thoughts.:thumbsup:
     
    #14 Dr. Timo, Feb 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2009
  15. Crabtownboy

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    What part of your culture have you shed since becoming a Christian?

    It is a question all of us should think about. We should also carefully examine our culture and try to determine what should still be shed. This is a very hard thing to do. Some will say impossible to do.

    Carlyle Marney in his book, "Faith In Conflit" calls culture the falcon that captures us before we can walk.
     
    #15 Crabtownboy, Feb 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2009
  16. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    Can we find “dating” in Scripture?
     
  17. Marcia

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    I agree.

    I think that it's best for a man not to touch a woman (except shake hands) unless he knows her well or has gotten a signal from her that it's okay (like she hugs him first).

    The biblical text about giving a holy kiss pertained to that day and culture when that was the norm. For today, it would translate more as shaking hands or even just saying "hello" (imo). I do not want men I know casually giving me a kiss - holy or not.

    Some men do not touch in an innocent way, even though it may look innocent.
     
  18. 4His_glory

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    I would agree that in the US and other parts of the world it would translate to something like shaking hands. However, There are many places in the world where kissing in the normal means of greeting and their is nothing sensual about it. As I stated, here in Argentina the norm is to kiss on the cheek. It is like shaking hands. So should we not practice it?

    I ask that because It seems to me that a lot of people like to superimpose American cultural practices on other cultures to make them more "biblical" when indeed there is nothing unbiblical about what they were doing in the first place.
     
  19. Crabtownboy

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    Sadly you are quite correct. Far too many people in the US confuse their culture and Christianity and believe that if anyone does something culturally different then they are wrong ... and sinful.
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    It is not only in America that some people engage in seemingly innocent cultural behavior but have ulterior motives.
     

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