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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Zaac, Jun 11, 2013.
to say that a Christian can lose fellowship with God?
Wouldn't you agree the guy in 1 Cor 5:5 had 'lost fellowship' with the Lord?
Of course one can fall out of felloship.
Lose salvation, NEVER
Lose felloship, yes
I am a living breathing testament to this truth!
During my prodigal days/walk...I was out of fellowship. I prefer to call it favor, but I was not in God's good graces. However, never once did I sense that He would dump me and had I died during those rough years, I never once doubted I'd be in heaven when my eyes opened.
I am wonderously, marvelously and forever saved. My name is written in His blood in the Lamb's Book of Life. No one, including myself can remove that name from that page. However, our actions, witness and life, can be very off kilter and off center and that is a fact. Peter was out of fellowship/favor with God and in particular, Jesus when he denied knowing him three times.
Yet Jesus came to him, forgave him, and restored that fellowship. Peter may have doubted his fellowship with the Lord, which is why Jesus repeated his forgiveness for him three times. He had to let Peter know, that he was good with Him.
Yes we can fal out of favor/fellowship, but there is no power on earth that will cancel the legal work of blood bought adoption into the family of God. Adoptions are a legal action, which is why I believe the Lord used this terminolgy to describe the act of Grace as an adoption by God to be His child.
People know that legal actions were binding by the courts and unable to be broken.
I know some may disagree with me...and I say, "So be it!" All that maters is what the Holy Ghost has impressed upon my heart, and He did this through example. I walked away, like the prodigal, and when I returned, full of shame and remorse, He took me back as if I'd merely walked to the local 7-11 and stayed a little longer than normal. Like I said, some, like his borther, may not agree, and may even be angry that the father absolved me, but, that is what I learned.
Now I know the prodigal son is not meant to be referred to for individuals, but rather for the nation of Israel. However, like all Scripture, it is alive and can be relevant and pertinent to whatever God wants it to be, and in my case, the prodigal son is a personal message. Like my salvation, you can try, but you can't take that away from me. raying:
kyredneck, I don't know that BIBLICALLY we can say the person was out of fellowship with God.
BIBLICAL fellowship seems to be tied to BIBLICAL salvation. And though Christians may be out of God's will and continue to sin, can they ever be out of the fellowship that comes from salvation and the indwelling?
If we wander from the leading of the Spirit, the communication lines are disconnected by our own doing.
Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
2 Corinthians 6
4 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
First verse that comes to mind is Eph 4:30 - '...don't grieve the holy Spirit'
A parable that reflects the loss of fellowship is the protigal son,
He was still the father's son but when he left he was 'out of fellowship' - he no longer walked in the ways of his father.
I see what you're saying. Fellowship in 1 John does seem to be directly connected to salvation.
I have used the idea of in or out of fellowship with the Lord in terms of our daily closeness with Him.
Taking the whole of Scripture into account and that once saved Christ has forgiven all of your sins(past, present, future), is it possible to remove the Christian from the fellowship with God that he entered into at salvation?
Does Scripture point to two distinct "fellowships": an eternal one and a daily one?
The eternal fellowship cannot be broken but the daily walk fellowship can.
Personally, the prodigal son is probably the very best illustration (as an earlier poster stated).
It is important to note:
It was not the father that broke fellowship (He is faithful even in our unfaithfulness).
It was not the father that returned (If we confess he will forgive).
AND THIS IS REAL IMPORTANT:
It was not the father that rejected the return of fellowship but his own brother!
Too many times the pew sitting self - righteous forget to rejoice as the angels certainly do, at the return of a prodigal but choose to be more, "bring fruits of your repentance and unless you can live up to my standard I will continue to shun you," accusative.
There is GREAT reward to the assembly when one is restored, for the example to others cannot be overlooked.
Interesting topic. I found just a few verses that use the word "fellowship"; and even the ones that had a different Greek word all came out to "sharing," "partaking," and/or "participating."
I think you're right. I think a lot of folks refer to this as "back sliding." I also think it can be associated with what someone already mentioned about the prodigal son.
Can a person lose fellowship with God? Yes.
Can a person lose their relationship with God? No. Not if they have been genuinely transformed by God.
Precisely Tom. I think I was probably typing the response after yours as you were writing :laugh:
There seems to be an eternal fellowship that cannot be broken but also a daily fellowship that must be tended.
It's akin to repentance and forgiveness where when you are first saved and repentance takes place, it covers EVERYTHING. But part of being sanctified into God's image still demands daily repentance.
That's what I found too Don. Which is what got me to thinking about this. I'd always heard people in the Church talking about someone being out of fellowship with God. But the way the word is translated from the Greek(the sharing, partaking, etc,.) seems to make it look as though the Christian isn't anymore able to get himself out of fellowship with God than he is able to get himself into salvation.
But there does also appear to be a daily fellowship that comes through obedience and sanctification.
But right here is where I think the confusion has arisen with folks in the past.
You're saying that a person can lose fellowship but can't lose their relationship. How are you in a relationship with God but not in fellowship with Him?
yours was better written.
"Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." 1 Peter 3:7
How many have been married and never had a fight with their wife? Didn't think so. But, the tension, arguments, and occasional fights might change your feelings sometimes, but it doesn't change the fact that you are married. It can alter the fellowship between each other which in turn, even damages your fellowship with God (it hinders your prayers) but the relationship is permanent.
can NEVER remove justification, that resulted in a relationship, can hinder sauctification by sinning and that jams up fellowship!