Is it fair

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Salty, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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  2. BigBossman

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    I think that's part of the reason why taxes go up (not counting politicians voting for increases). If only 53% of Americans are paying taxes that means that the burden has been shifted onto them.

    That's why we need another system. Rather than taxing a person on how much they make & penalizing them for making more money, a person would be taxed according to how much they spend on non-essential items. There should be a low-percentage national sales tax that only applies to certain items. This way you wouldn't hear liberals complain about the wealthy people using loopholes to avoid paying it. There would be no way a person could claim "exempt" on their taxes (churches & other religious groups could still maintain a tax exempt status). It would automatically be tacked onto what that person has purchased.

    If a person controls how much they spend, then they could also control the amount of tax they pay. There would be no need to file taxes at the end of the year like with the income tax. Also if someone had a personal beef with the federal government, they could boycott those items that are taxed. This way the government would get a taste of what its like when their pocketbook takes a hard hit. This would put true power in the hands of the citizens.
     
  3. rbell

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    Once 51% of Americans pay no taxes, we have reached the point of no return, IMO.

    You've hit upon the problem with both D's and R's: everything they do...everything...is done with the idea of buying votes in mind.
     
  4. billwald

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    From the essay"

    "I'm talking here about federal income taxes, not other taxes like Social Security, Medicare, state income taxes, sales taxes, or car registration taxes, some of which are extracted through payroll deductions. The owe-no-money crowd tends to get hit by at least some of those."

    Why is the NAME of the tax so important? SS tax goes into the treasury and is spent for current budget needs exactly the same as the income tax.

    The real rub is that real rich people don't have income, they have capital gains.

    Income tax, SS Tax, capital gains are all taxes on one's income, all go into the treasury, and all are spent for current budget needs. Only the name and tax rate are changed to protect the rich.
     
  5. poncho

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    Is it fair that any American is forced to surrender their property and labor to an institution that can legally make money appear out of thin air? And I believe you are mistaken billwald. Federal income tax money goes to pay towards the interest on the debt our government has run up with the unconsitutional Federal Reserve system.


    Where do your "income" tax dollars go?



    The best place to look for an answer to this question would be a government report, so let's take just one at random:



    President's Private Sector Survey On Cost Control


    A Report to The President (Reagan)



    January 15, 1984. Available from the Congressional Research Service.



    The excerpt below can be found on page 12.
    • "Importantly, any meaningful increases in taxes from personal income would have to come from lower and middle income families, as 90% of all personal taxable income is generated below the taxable income level of $35,000.
    • Further, there isn't much more that can be extracted from high income brackets. If the
      Government took 100% of all taxable income beyond the $75,000 tax bracket not already taxed, it would get only $17 billion, and this confiscation, which would destroy productive enterprise, would only be sufficient to run the Government for several days.
    • Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:
    • With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Government contributions to transfer payments.
    • In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their government."
    So what we have is a central bank issuing worthless paper "money" that controls our economy, our lives and our future. This private banking cartel was unconstitutionally granted this power by a devious, scheming group of senators back in 1913. In essence what they did was place the American people into indentured servitude by forcing The People to pay usury on worthless fiat currency (paper money created out of nothing), not to fund the government, but to enrich the bankers and fund wars in which America should never be involved. This system exists not to fund the government, but to allow the U.S. Congress carte blanche power to continue funding unconstitutional agencies and programs by providing them with a bottomless source of worthless ink.

    < snip >

    Without the central bank siphoning off the wealth of our nation, there would be no need for a personal income tax.



    SOURCE



    Is the unconstitutional privately owned fiat money system fair?
     
    #5 poncho, Aug 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2009
  6. billwald

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    >"Importantly, any meaningful increases in taxes from personal income would have to come from lower and middle income families, as 90% of all personal taxable income is generated below the taxable income level of $35,000.

    BECAUSE the rich people have defined "taxable income" as the income that the working class receives. Rich people have capital gains, not income.

    Look at it this way: the tax is designed to collect money from the people who must spend 80% of their annual increase to stay alive. The rich people don't know how to spend 10% of their annual increase. The rich person saves 90% and the working class person saves 10% if he works hard at it. So 10 years later the working person has a years pay ($50K) in the bank and the rich person has 10 years ($500 million) pay in the bank.
     
  7. poncho

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    The income tax is designed to relieve the American people of their real wealth and replace it with debt.
     
  8. Salty

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  9. windcatcher

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    I think your question maybe when are taxes fair? ?


    Everyone pays taxes.

    Utilities
    Registration of vehicles
    Property
    School Board
    Special Districts
    Sales
    Luxury
    Bed and Board/ hotel/ tourist
    fuel and gasoline
    license and permits (sometimes not counted as taxes... but are a 'form' of revenue mandated by regulation)
    etc.... etc.

    So you must be speaking about the 'income' tax.

    Do you really think its unfair for the person who has dependants and is supporting them on his income.... but has no income taxes because of the deduction of mouths he must shelter and feed?

    I don't think this is what you mean.

    Yes...... I agree..... the tax is designed to keep the poor, poor, to increase the struggle for 'the middle class' to keep what they've had and earned and contributed.... and to shelter the holdings of those whose monies are earned in an easy chair at board meetings and WS investments.
     
  10. billwald

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    >So what we have is a central bank issuing worthless paper "money" . . . .

    If it is worthless then why do you object to returning some of it? <G>
     
  11. poncho

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    Because we aren't just returning some wortless papper money. We're surrendering our real property and labor as interest to a private banking cartel that has loaned us nothing.

    Here's an explanation of how the "system" works.

    Let's say that for 2002, Congress and the President decide they want $1.7 trillion dollars to fund this bloated pig called our government. We know that 100% of all personal "income" taxes extorted by the IRS goes to the "Federal" Reserve Banking System and does not fund a single function of the government. So, let's take the people's blood and sweat off the table.

    What other revenues does the government collect? Corporate taxes, social security taxes, constitutional revenues such as excise taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, tobacco, firearms, tires, etc., tariffs on trade, military hardware sales, and some minor categories. Let's say that those revenues will total $900 billion dollars. The politicians want $1.7 trillion to spend on their favorite welfare programs, wars and foreign welfare, but have a short fall of $800 billion dollars. This is called the deficit and the deficit, created by the spending of Congress, creates the "national debt."

    How? Because the politicians are $800 billion dollars short, they simply call up Al Greenspan and borrow your children's and grand babies' futures. The "Federal" Reserve Banks don't loan anything of value to Congress. They aren't banks; they're really an overpaid, powerful, private accounting service. When that $800 billion dollars worth of ink is transferred to the Treasury, it gets piled on top of the existing "national debt."

    This is how the magical money machine works. Congress overspends. It borrows from this accounting firm called the "Fed" and then turns around and tells you to pay for these crimes against the people. In other words, Congress basically pays the bills with social security and borrowed ink from the "Fed." Pretty slick scam, wouldn't you say?

    SOURCE

    Is this fair?
     
    #11 poncho, Aug 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2009

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