is it possible that a person can believe in evolution

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by massdak, Nov 3, 2002.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    and still be a Christian?
    i have doubts about this one. doesn't someone have a non biblical view of who God is if they do not ascribe to the biblical account of adam and eve? can liberal religionist believe in metaphors on these type of issues and still be saved?
    or are they accepting another Jesus?
    i have met a methodist minister, who is pro abortion, and believes in evolution, he believes in gay special rights, and believes that satan, and hell, are a figurative of speech and mainly allegory in nature. this minister votes democratic and preaches always a social gospel instead of Christ.
     
  2. Don

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    Does the Bible say anything against any of those issues? If not specifically, then in principle?

    If yes, then it's possible this methodist minister you're talking about is a Christian who is simply misguided.

    On the other hand, he might be putting his own personal views ahead of the Bible, and thus calls into question his "fruits."

    If no, well, we've got a lot more discussing to do before we get onto the subject of this particular minister.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Personal op/ed - The Bible speaks about Jesus being the Creator in clear and absolute terms.
    Does NOT believing that preclude that such a person does not believe in faith that He is the Savior? I fail to see a connection.

    They are wrong. They are believing a false teaching if they deny Jesus is the Creator (which evolution inherently does, although some of the BB "evolutionists" DO believe Jesus is the first cause). That has NOTHING to do with their personal repenance and faith in Christ for salvation.
     
  4. Johnv

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    Is it possible that a person can believe in evolution and be a Christian?

    Yes. This board is full of people who accept evolution as a credible theory and are faithful Christians. I am one.
     
  5. Rev. Joshua

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    Me too.

    Massdak, I know several baptist ministers who hold to the views you describe and have strong, personal testimonies of their salvation.

    Joshua
     
  6. neal4christ

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    I think that creation is not a litmus test for salvation, but I would have serious concerns about someone who faithfully believes in evolution. Especially when there is so little evidence for it and it is mainly a hypothesis, not even a theory. Also, there is just as much evidence (if not far more, see ICR, Answers in Genesis, etc.) for creation. Even some secular scientists recognize the intricate design of the simplest life forms and see that there has to be more to it than simple blind chance. The way I look at is that in either case you are putting your faith somewhere...either in God as creator, or in chance and probability that life arose from nothing. And that is what evolution teaches, not that it is a mechanism of God, but there is no God and material is all there is. I personally do not understand how someone can believe evolution and be a Christian, but that is not my place to judge that person, only the Creator of all things can!
     
  7. Rev. G

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    They can believe in evolution and still be a Christian, but that goes to show that they are:
    1) In need of taking the Scriptures more seriously; and
    2) In need of taking science more seriously (especially the laws of thermodynamics).

    Evolution is a philosophy and it is a religion, it is far from being a science. After all, it is the "theory" of evolution.

    :D Rev. G
     
  8. Johnv

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    The question was not what evolution was, the question was if someone can believe in evolution and still be a Christian (A discussion of what evolution is would be better suited for the creation/evolution forum). The answer is "yes". As for taking scripture more seriously, I take scripture very seriously. As far as taking science seriously, trying passing science through some biblical filter is unproductive and comromises not only science but also the Bible, since it uses the Bible in a manner for which it was not written.
     
  9. RaptureReady

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    Christian and Evolution. Now that is a contradiction of terms. A Christian believes in a Creator while evolutionist do not. One or the other, you choose.

    As far as the minister goes, well, this passage comes to mind. 2 Corinthians 11:13  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
    14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
    15  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

    If you are a Christian that agrees with evolution, then God is waiting for you to repent of your sin.
     
  10. Johnv

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    Agreeing with the idea that all life may be decended from a common ancestor is not a sin.

    It's amusing how those opposed to evolution say that evolutionists don't believe in God, yet those Christians who don't dismiss evolution know better.
     
  11. Rev. G

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    First, I answered the primary question.

    Second, I did not make a long detailed statement about evolution, except to point out that it is both philosophical and RELIGIOUS. Doesn't it seem like that is an important aspect of this question?

    Third, evolution (apart from a "biblical filter") isn't good science. In fact, it isn't scientific!

    Fourth, the Christian's complete worldview must be filtered through the Scriptures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The Bible isn't a science textbook, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true and accurate in all that it teaches (including creation).

    Rev. G
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

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    The Bible is a filter ? Why can't we use the Bible for science ? To me, the Bible is the sum of all history, and to question one part of it, makes the whole thing impotent.

    Which do you take more seriously, the Bible, or "science" ?

    If you question the creation, do you also question the Garden of Eden, the Flood, the Tower of Babel ? Do you believe Balaam's ass spoke, with a man's voice ? Do you believe the "Fourth man in the Fire" story in Daniel ?
     
  13. neal4christ

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    I agree with you wholeheartedly, Rev. G and Bro. Curtis. To not take your worldview from Scripture is extremely dangerous if you are a Christian. Your faith is not separated from everything else.

    And also:
    Just because someone believes in evolution and not creation doesn't mean that they are taking science seriously. In fact, they aren't, I think. But that is another issue. As I stated previously there is a very active and vibrant field of creation science, headed by Institute for Creation Research and Answers In Genesis. These guys are scientists, not theologians! And I am familiar with science, so I am not just talking about something I have never looked into or seen the evolutionist perspective. I majored in engineering at a major state university, and the science department was not exactly creation friendly! However, as Rev. G stated, evolution is a religion or a philosophy, and it requires faith to believe it because there is no proof, just ideas. As for me, I will put my faith in the Creator of the universe!

    [ November 04, 2002, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     
  14. FearNot

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    without haveing read any replys I suggest you read the book, "It Couldn't Just Happen." This is a very good book and will answer alot of scientific questions.
     
  15. Matthew 16:24

    Matthew 16:24
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    This poor Minister, I and the Bible would consider him one of the lost people out there who does NOT have their salvation and needs to repent of his sins.

    Hell a figurative of speech and evolution is two of Satans biggest lies.
    The Bible is true once again,
    Re:12:9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world : he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    How can a Christian believe that we came from apes is ridiculous!
    They are not Christian! I believe Homebound listed an appropirate scripture for this.

    [ November 04, 2002, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: Matthew 16:24 ]
     
  16. DHK

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    It was Julian Huxley the great proponent of evolution after Darwin, that said: "I do not believe in evolution because it is credible, rather I believe in evolution because belief in God is far too incredible." Does not that sum it up? Even the originators of the "theory/hypothesis" of evolution come to a point where they must admit that their belief in evolution is simply because they do not want to bow down before the great Creator of the universe and own Him as their Master. That would be an admission of subservience and a logical outcome would be if Christ/God is my master, then I must obey His commandments--which the natural or unsaved man is unwilling to do. Thus the theory of evolution was devised as an alternative to belief in God Almighty.
    DHK
     
  17. Baptist Believer

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    Yes. Many believers are theistic evolutionists.

    Many believers subscribe to the biblical account of Adam and Eve, but don't interpret it in as literal a fashion as you apparently do.

    Certainly. Salvation is not about having a perfect or complete theology, it is about trusting God through Christ.

    The question of accepting another Jesus is more related to one's theology of Jesus than theology of the process of origins. Theistic evolutionists affirm that God is the Creator and evolution is the creative process that God chose to create the cosmos.

    Lots of Methodists believe this way. Some of them clearly leave the orbit of the Christian faith like Fort Worth's Barry Bailey (former pastor of First United Methodist) preached that Jesus was not resurrected physically -- only "spiritually" in our hearts :rolleyes: . I was stunned to her him preach that anti-Christ message on Easter Sunday morning (I was watching on television) without anyone in his congregation getting up to leave.

    I didn't realize that voting straight-ticket Republican was the hallmark of Christian discipleship :rolleyes: . Personally, I'm voting for a few Democrats tomorrow because some of our Republican candidates here in Texas have been incredibly dishonest in their campaign commercials. If they lie to me when they are running for office, what will they do when they have power? :eek:

    Baptists have had a poor history of preaching social justice, so I'm probably a little more open than you to hearing this kind of message. But to preach only social justice is unbalanced.
     
  18. massdak

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    i agree with you matthew, when Gods word is distorted in a way such as evolution and other aspects, it at this point molds Jesus into a different Jesus then that of the bible. can we all agree on this? is the fact that adam and eve and the fall of man at issue here also? if we evolved then how did sin enter and death? how does this view coincide with the real biblical Jesus? this is not a post about evolution, but it is a post about a minister that has a belief in a different gospel.
     
  19. Baptist Believer

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    No.

    They don't have to be.

    I'm not really a believer in traditional evolutionary theory, but my guess is that one might say that "adam" and "eve" were the first humans who became conscious of God in the evolutionary process. (Adam and Eve would not necessarily be literal people here, but the early men and women of humankind.) Sin and spiritual death entered when they rejected God.

    A better question would be, why do you believe that a belief in theistic evolution is incompatible with trusting the real Jesus.

    Not necessarily a different gospel, but at least a different view of origins.
     
  20. neal4christ

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    Was Noah real? Abraham? Daniel? Moses? David? Solomon? Was Jesus' crucifixion literal? This is the problem of comprimising the creation account with evolution. There is nothing to say that Adam and Eve were not real, but rather they are presented as very real, especially when you think of them having relations and children with individual names. Once you establish that you can allegorize the Bible from the opening chapter, there is no stopping it. You may say that it would be ludicrous to say that Jesus' death was allegory and not literal, but you have no way to support that, because you have already established that being a viable interpretation with your allegorizing of the creation account.

    Neal

    [ November 04, 2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]
     

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