Is it possible to resist God's will?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by npetreley, May 6, 2007.

  1. npetreley

    npetreley
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    Paul suggests that some will say, "Then why does God still blame us, for who resists His will?" Paul's response is interesting because it in no way resembles an answer that boils down to, "You resist His will, you stiff-necked reprobates!" Instead, the answer is, "Who are you talk back to God, just because everything you do is in accordance with His will, yet He still reserves the right to blame you? It's HIS creation. Doesn't He have the right to make some people one way, and other people another way?" This is, indeed, the point of the story of Job. God does what He will with His creation, and He is under no obligation to explain to us why He does things the way He does. If He strikes a person He Himself said was upright, what is that to you? You're not God.

    So, I will ask this question once again: Is it possible to resist God's will? I don't care if you call it His directive or permissive will - it's still His will. Is it possible to resist His will or not?

    Please pay careful attention to what I'm asking. I'm not asking if it is possible to resist the Spirit of God, for example, since the Bible clearly states that people do. I'm asking if it is possible to resist God's will. There is a very clear difference, since it may be the will of God for some people to resist His Spirit.
     
  2. Salty

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    I have no ideal,how about asking some guy I know. His name is Jonah.
     
  3. npetreley

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    Hmmm....just me, but I thought one of the points of the story of Jonah was that it was futile to try to resist God's will.
     
  4. npetreley

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    Wow, only one response, and that pointing to a story that illustrates that God's will cannot be thwarted? Is this topic too boring, or are you afraid of the consequences of the answer?
     
  5. Amy.G

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    Romans 9
    19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"


    Paul seems to be saying that God's will cannot be resisted. However, if it's God's will to allow His creation (humans) free will of their own to choose life or death, who are you to reply against God?
     
  6. examiningcalvinism

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    NP

    Jeremiah 18:1-13
    The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD saying, “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will announce My words to you.” Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something on the wheel. But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make. Then the word of the LORD came to me saying, “Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it; if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it. Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. So now then, speak to the men of Judah and against the inhabitants of Jerusalem saying, “Thus says the LORD, ‘Behold, I am fashioning calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Oh turn back, each of you from his evil way, and reform your ways and your deeds.’ But they will say, ‘It’s hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’ “Therefore thus says the LORD, ‘Ask now among the nations, who ever heard the like of this? The virgin of Israel has done a most appalling thing.’”

    The Potter conditionally molds.
    If you repent, He will relent.
    If you turn from righteousness, He will stop blessing and start punishing.

    God reached His hand of mercy out to Israel all day long. (Isaiah 65:2)
    But they refused Him, and so ultimately He did what He threatened, and hardened them. (Isaiah 6:9-10)
    Jesus then declares that He had had a better plan, all along, but they wouldn't have it (Matthew 23:37), so now they only exist as a nation as a small remnant, according to His mercy.
     
  7. npetreley

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    That's an oxymoron. If God wills that we are able to resist His will, then we can resist His will. So your answer is simply yes - It is possible to resist God's will.
     
  8. npetreley

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    So I take it that your answer is "yes, God's will can be resisted".
     
  9. gb93433

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    Maybe Judas too.
     
  10. npetreley

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    Are you suggesting Judas could have chosen NOT to betray Jesus?
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    John 1:
    10: He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11: He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!
     
  12. npetreley

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    My Bible says Judas had no choice but to betray Jesus. The scripture had to be fulfilled. Why? Because it was the determined purpose of God. And it doesn't say it had to be fulfilled concerning "some guy". It SAYS Judas.

    I find it amusing that the two smart-aleck responses are two excellent examples of God's will being fulfilled, whether man likes it or not.
     
    #12 npetreley, May 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2007
  13. npetreley

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    Bob, I know I promised not to interact with you anymore, but since you seem to have calmed down a lot (and I commend you for that), I'll respond to this.

    The above shows that people resisted doing things or didn't do things. They didn't receive him. The teachers and those in authority would not comfort the children of Jerusalem.

    But did they behave that way according to God's will or contrary to it? Would the authorities and leaders of Jerusalem have crucified our Lord if they were of a mind to comfort the children of Jerusalem? We also know, for example, that it was God's will for Judas to betray Jesus (see above post). Then there's the example of Pharoah.

    Just because people do bad things does not mean it is outside God's will that they do so. One of the examples I raise often is when Joseph says to his brothers, "You meant it for evil but God MEANT IT for good." In other words, his brothers had their own evil motives, but they were still doing God's will. If they hadn't done it, none of the good things (like saving the family from the famine) would have happened.

    As I said in my original post, I don't care if you call it permissive will, directive will, or what have you. My Bible says that not even a sparrow falls to the ground APART FROM HIS WILL.

    So I go back to my original question. Is it possible to resist God's will?
     
    #13 npetreley, May 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2007
  14. Brother Bob

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    I find it ironic that "his own" according to Calvinist is the "elect", but yet He came to "His own" and "His own" received him not.
    How can that be? The "elect" would not receive the Lord.
     
  15. npetreley

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    Elect means many things. You are using "elect" in reference to salvation, but that is not the context of the verse. The context of the verse is more in line with this:

    The Jews were elect to, among other things, preserve the oracles of God. The Jews were God's chosen people - not all for salvation, but for other purposes. And these (his own) rejected Him. They HAD TO, especially the leaders, otherwise there would have been no crucifixion and no salvation.
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    No, I was using "His own". That means those who were His.

    (edit) Luk 13:34¶O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not!


    BTW Npet; The first man ever created went against the "will" of God.

    npet; Is sin God's will, or is it His will for us not to sin, and if its His will, for us to sin, then why did Jesus have to die, if we are fulfilling His will when we sin?
     
    #16 Brother Bob, May 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2007
  17. Amy.G

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    The Jews were God's chosen people - not all for salvation, but for other purposes.
    So, not even all of the elect are chosen for salvation. Interesting. :rolleyes:
     
  18. npetreley

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    You honestly don't realize that God chooses people for different purposes? That's what elect means, you know. Chosen. You thought elect can only mean to salvation, and that the Jews were all elect for salvation?

    What is the point of this board?
     
  19. Amy.G

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    So besides changing the meaning of "world" and "all", you are now changing the meaning of "elect"? Show me where "elect" means anything other than God's chosen people for salvation. Scripture please.
     
  20. npetreley

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    Jesus:

    Isaiah 42:1 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

    Angels:

    1 Tim 5:21 I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality.

    Israel:

    Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob My servant’s sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me.

    What do they teach you folks at your churches and Bible studies? Or don't you read the Bible on your own?
     

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