Is it true that they can never get better?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by bapmom, May 25, 2006.

  1. bapmom

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    In another thread someone posted their opinion that sex offenders can never get better. My personal inclination (gut reaction) is that Id never trust that person again, in the least. And I guess I'd always think of them as a sex offender.

    However, Biblically when a person is saved they are a new creature. With all other offenses when a person is saved we will leave their past life in the past. But can this particular offense be left in the past? I mean if the offender gets saved? Can he ever be allowed to move on? Do you think that he can ever be "rehabilitated"?
     
  2. James_Newman

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    Of course they can.
     
  3. rbell

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    They can get better, but the stakes are too high if they fail to allow them to ever be around kids again.

    Even if a child sex offender is "rehabbed" and pays the legal penalty, I would keep them away from kids. Forever.
     
  4. blackbird

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    Sure they can----with repentance and forgiveness from Almighty God---He will forgive

    But

    God has a "Law of the Harvest" that says "Whatsoever a man soeth, that shall he also reap"

    There is a record against the offender that will never die--and will haunt him/her for the rest of their lives---it will go with them everywhere they go--to apply for a job--the record will go with them! To apply for a school--the record will go with them! To get married--the record will be wedded with them
     
  5. bapmom

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    Perhaps I have bought a little bit into the idea that this is a disease?
     
  6. menageriekeeper

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    Perversion is not a disease. I believe this is one of those things that the Bible talks about in this passage:

    Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
    Ro 1:21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
    Ro 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    Ro 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
    Ro 1:24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:
    Ro 1:25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    Ro 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Ro 1:27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
    Ro 1:28 And even as they refused to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
    Ro 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    Ro 1:30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    Ro 1:31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
    Ro 1:32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.


    I don't believe they can change or recieve salvation because they made the decision long ago not to honor God. It's not that God can't/won't save them but that they won't ask because of the evilness of their own hearts.

    Child molesters cannot be "cured" and should be executed upon being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Every human, no matter what their sin, can be saved and healed and brought to repentance.

    It is harder, however, for some than for others, especially in the area of sexual depravity. Child molesters are depraved, but there are many other people who are depraved sexually, including....well, we don't need to make a list.

    Why do I say that it is harder in the area of sexual depravity?

    Because the Bible says so.

    I Corinthians 6:18-20..."Flee from sexual immorality! All other sins a man commits are outside his body; but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.

    You are not your own, you were bought with a price. Therefore, honor God with your body.

    Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?"


    Why are many child molesters, rapists, adulterers, fornicators, and those who are addicted to pornography so many times viewed as "incurable"?

    It's because sexual sin is different from other sins.

    It's not worse. That's not what I am trying to say, but it has consequences against the body like no other sin does.

    The above scripture said it all.

    We are not our own. We are bought with a price.

    When we defile the temple with sexual depravity, we are saying that God has no authority over our bodies. We are saying and believing that we ARE our own. That the price of Jesus Christ's blood is not enough!!

    We are saying that the defilement of our bodies is worth more than the blood of Jesus.

    And that sin, sexual depravity, in it's MANY, MANY forms can get hold of a person like no other sin in the universe can.

    We are our own gods. We own our own bodies. We worship ourselves in a foul temple of our own making.

    And to be "cured" of that lifestyle is next to impossible.

    We all know what "does it" for us. And we know it early in life. Unfortunately, for countless numbers of people, what "does it" for them involves depravity of some form.

    Just think of how many people that you may know of that may be addicted to pornography in some form.

    Just think of how many people on the BaptistBoard who may be addicted to pornography in some form, but we don't know it about each other.

    Don't scoff.

    When we make ourselves our own gods and believe that we can pay the cost of living this life ourselves, we claim the "temple" to be a temple unto worshipping ourselves.

    And that is a bondage of sin like unto no other bondage.

    I didn't say so.

    The Bible did.

    Yes, these people can be saved and healed.

    Does it happen often? No.

    It is my personal opinion that the devil has chosen sexual depravity as his primary weapon of choice against the human race and so much of the world has fallen in the battle and will continue to fall until Christ returns.
     
  8. saturneptune

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    First of all, God is sovereign. You do not know if his elect at one time in their life committed this sin or not. You are making an assumption based on human reasoning. You have no idea what the good pleasure and will of God are. Second of all, I am for the death penalty, but not for this crime. It is not the punishment that is on the books in this country.
     
  9. billreber

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    menageriekeeper said:

    "Child molesters cannot be "cured" and should be executed upon being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

    I have spent some time inside a prison as a volunteer, and have met some of these child molesters who have also accepted Christ as Savior. Most met Jesus in prison, AFTER they were convicted of child abuse. ALL of those I have talked with abhor what they did. This tells me God can change ANYONE.

    How many souls would (we) send to hell, simply because (we) executed them BEFORE they had a chance to meet Jesus?

    Bill

    [ May 26, 2006, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]
     
  10. menageriekeeper

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    Sorry, but this is a non arguement for me. The Bible itself says the "man is without excuse". I'm not the one that sends a person to hell, they bound for it already. You can take hell sending up with God.

    What I said was there was no "cure" for a child molester and they should be executed for their crimes. Child molestation is not a disease, it is a crime. It is a crime that statistics show will happen over and over until the molester no longer has access to his prey. Just because the current punishment is not death doesn't mean I can't hold the opinion that it should be.

    If you'll notice, I said originally that God offered salvation to everyone, but that few child molesters will accept because of their own evilness (they simply don't want to be saved).

    I truely hope those you minister to are truely converted and not just playing lip service in order to gain a better standing in front of the parole board.
     
  11. Magnetic Poles

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    Anyone who would sexually abuse a child obviously has a psychological problem. Still, children should be protected from them. I am not for execution, but for protracted incarceration and psychological treatment. Oh yeah, and never letting them near a child, ever.
     
  12. TaterTot

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    I dont think sex offenders can be rehabilitated. Forgiven by God? sure. Maybe its just the mama bear in me. Grrrr!
     
  13. mcdirector

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    God can heal anything and anyone.

    However, I don't believe that statistics are in their favor. I believe the primary issue is that these are people who have not submitted to God before or after the offense.

    Now, Tator mentioned mama bears. This is one of those real-life consequences of sin. When you do something hienous, people do not tend to trust you again, regardless of any change that is wrought.
     
  14. shannonL

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    As gross as it may be to molest a child that person can still be redeemed.
    If they can't then how could you?

    I believe that molestation is crime and a sin that should be paid for by death of the offender.

    Yet again for those who think that kind of person can't be saved your forgetting what a wretch you were when God saved you.

    There may be those who God has given over to uncleaness through the lusts of their own hearts but as long as that person is willing to listen then obviously they havent gotten to that point.

    Case in point, My wife's hair stylist is named Tony. He is 37 He is a homosexual. The Roman Catholic hair stylist said he couldn't come to church. He had been told through the years that he couldn't be saved. He flipped out when he found out I was a preacher and was just a regular guy that could conversate with him without acting all weird.
    For some reason Tony hasn't engaged in sexual activity for 3yrs. He also told me that he begged God to take those kind of desires away from him through the years.
    We are inviting Tony to our house for supper in a week or so. We are going to try and minister to this lost soul. I believe God sent each of us down each other's path.
    IOW if person is searching for answers God will always send somebody with the answers. Whether that person responds properly or not is dependent upon whether or not they are going to obey the Spirit of God working in their lives.
    There is no person alive that is so vile that the blood of Christ cannot cleanse them and wash them white as snow.
    To think that there is is simply a outward display of one's pious ignorance towards the belief of saving power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    But for the grace of God so goes you.
     
  15. Andy T.

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    Great story, ShannonL. [​IMG]
     
  16. Magnetic Poles

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    Yes, but Shannon, just a nitpick. You are backing into a word to a non-existent one. You don't back out of conversation into conversate. The word is converse. Just like you don't administrate, but administer, despite some growing acceptance of this inflected form. You don't commentate, but comment.
     
  17. Pipedude

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    Pedophilia can be either homo- or heterosexual, but such desires are mental disorders while the acts themselves are crimes.

    Remember that Paul was writing about homosexuals (both jocks and punks) when he said "and such were some of you, but ye are washed, ye are sanctified, ye are justified." That mental disorder runs very deep and the "cure" rate is depressingy low. Apparently, sexuality is at the core of our being and when it gets twisted, the damage is persistent and extensive. Yet, Paul spoke of success stories in a still-Grecian culture where even pederasty was usually accepted.

    This doesn't eliminate the need for justice against offenders. I personally think that if retribution were administered swiftly, severely, and publicly, many potential pedophiles would look at their urges, decide it's a bad idea, and never go down that nearly irreversible route.
     
  18. bapmom

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    You've all given me stuff to think about. One thought I had was that my personal reaction to punishment is that it ought to be the death penalty. Especially in this country, that does not preclude them from ever hearing the gospel again, and it will probably be years before the sentence was ever carried out.
     
  19. Magnetic Poles

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    bapmom, it is a difficult issue. If some perv touched my grandkids, they'd have one out-of-control grandpa ready to give his own justice. However, that is an emotional reaction, not a logical one. Emotions cloud judgment and good sense. I pray I am never put in that situation.
     
  20. pinoybaptist

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    In a scale of 1-10, with 10 the highest, I would put sexual perverts in the rank of 10 with regards to people I will not trust around children or wome.
    Next will be those suffering from manic depression and prone to be homicidal, wouldn't trust them behind me, and I don't care if they're deacons or elders.
    Sorry, no offense meant on the second one.
    It's just that I grew up in mean streets, where a handshake don't mean nuthin'.
     

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