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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by IAMWEAK_2007, Aug 13, 2013.
that no one had seen God?
You may need to qualify that question.:smilewinkgrin:
God the Father? ...... God the Father in all His fullness of Himself? ...... God the Father in all His fullness of Himself as we shall see Him in glory?
No. It is not true. It is true that no man has seen God and lived.
But Jesus said that no one has seen God - period.
"No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him." - John 1:18
When studying the Bible, we must come to an understanding of the scope of statements. Was Jesus God? Yes, God in the flesh. Did people see him with their own eyes? Yes. So then how to we reconcile the statement that no one has seen God?
First, the invisible God is God the Father. But we can see God the Son, whether as the Angel of the Lord or the "I Am" in the burning bush, or as God incarnate.
Next, the idea is no person can see the invisible God with physical eyes, but as spiritual beings we can see the Father. Note how John saw Him through spiritual eyes in Revelation.
Finally, after enter the eternal kingdom, then can we see the Father with our glorified eyes? Yes. Revelation 22:4
P.S. Based on this analysis of scripture, (John 1:18; Exodus 33:20; John 6:46; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 6:16; 1 John 4:12 who did Adam and Eve see in the garden? God the Son in physical form!
Bible study is wonderful but you must play it where it is, and not fudge and change or nullify it.
How will you explain this?
Gen_32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Genesis 16:13; Exodus 24:10-11; Exodus 33:20; Numbers 12:8; Judges 6:22; Judges 13:22 describe folks seeing God and living.
The answer is they saw God the Son in some form or another, such as the burning bush. No other view fits with all scripture.
Jacob encountered a Christophany, a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus Christ. Note that in Genesis 32:28 He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed." Striven with God. This is what happened in verses 24 and 25.
When you go back to John 1:18, no one has ever seen the Father (the person of the godhead being referred to).
I mentioned the need to qualify your statement because of Scripture like the one you mentioned. As Scarlett mentioned, no one has EVER seen the full Shekinah Glory of God face to face and lived.
His holiness would devour our unholy flesh.
So when Scripture says that no one has ever seen the face of God and lived, it doesn't create any conflict with Jacob saying he has seen God face to face, or with Moses' encounter, or with people seeing Jesus Christ( who is God) face to face.
No live man has ever seen the full Shekinah Glory of God face to face and lived. Because these accounts did not speak of death after seeing the face of God, we can rightly divide that it was NOT GOD in His full Shekinah Glory.
Go back a few verses.
"And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day."
God - whether the Father or the Son - my opinion, the Son - was in the form of a human man, with flesh - NOT in His true form.
Everyone who who saw Jesus saw God.
Other then that, we just get glimpsis...
A new born baby.
Standing in front of the osceon for the 1st time
seeing a spectacular sunset, etc.
Is that a fact? Where did the Glory come from that Moses saw from the cleft of a rock? Isn't the Holy Spirit God? Did He not show up in the NT as a dove? There is no proof that every physical manifestation of God in Scripture is the Son.
How about "no one has seen God?" The invisible God is God the Father. Perhaps you should reread the verses I cited to support my conclusion.
It is true God the Father may have left evidence of His passing by, like footprints or glowing faces, but the simple answer is God the Son is not always invisible.
Your point is well taken that the Holy Spirit can make his presence visible, like coming upon Jesus as something like a dove.