Is it valid to use the heretic label?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Bro Tony, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is it valid, legitamate, and permissible for Calvinist to call non-calvinists or Arminians heretics here on the BB? It is also valid, legitamate and permissible for non-calvinists or Arminians to call Calvinists heretics on the BB?

    Bro Tony
     
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    We are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ and NO we shouldn't do it but we have, including me but it was wrong to do so.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    There are times when doctrines are posted that are blasphemous and heretical. Jude said to contend for the faith.

    Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    Not only are we to mark those that cause divisions, I believe that they are marked by pointing out their error, their heresy. A heretic after the first and second adomonition reject.
    Most of the time I encounter this on the Other Denominations Forum--the beliefs of Benny Hinn, the beliefs of the SDA, Catholicism, etc. But there are some doctrines that appear in Baptist forums that need the same type of rebuke as well.
    DHK
     
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bro. Tony;
    Please disregard my post for I am not a moderator on BB for sure and if the moderator says its ok to call someone a heretic, who am I to disagree with the moderator.
     
  5. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    0
    my reply to this question would be thus:

    Is the Calvinist causing a division in the body of Christ? Is the Arminian causing a division in the body of Christ? If so, then to call the Calvinist or Arminian a heretic is valid.

    A heretic is one who causes divisions or schisms in the church.
     
  6. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Heresy is that which goes against orthodox doctrine of the churuch--the trinity, the deity of Christ, and usually that which is set out in one's statement of faith in the local church in which he attends.
    There are many good Calvinists on this board and many good Arminians.
    I am neither a Calvinist nor am I an Arminian. These are not issues to be divided over, and neither one or the other can be called a heretic for taking a stand on either issue. Baptists have been the one group throughout history who have been noted for their Baptist Distinctive of soul liberty. May it always be so.
    DHK
     
  7. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    I would also hope we don't have double standards and that our soul liberty doesn't only apply to doctrines historically found in the baptist tradition but also to non-Baptist groups who hold to different doctrines based on their different understandings of scripture. The Calvinism/Arminianism debate began that way as well.

    Soul liberty for many Baptists unfortunately only applies to things they are undecided about.
     
  8. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is one of the points I so appreciated in Richard P. Belchers theological novel, A Journey in Grace as he clearly supports our need to show love and to claim as brothers those who clearly believe and live as christians, believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for those who believe in Him. No one will ever believe exactly as we do on all points. I would consider it quite risky to call one who differs with me 'heretic', unless they blatantly rejected the gospel and were a false teacher! I would also hope we are all continuing to study, learn and grow and that we have not so sealed our beliefs that we no longer are open to a change of mind and heart! God is at work in all of us who love Him! God's church is not bound by denominational label!
     
  9. Pipedude

    Pipedude
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it's kinda cute, myself, sorta like a preschooler calling another preschooler "doo-doo head."

    I've had a couple of Athanasius wannabes on these boards say that only those who believe in OSAS are saved. (One was a PhD college professor.) I find it quite enjoyable, and also enlightening. It's good to see what really underlies the mental processes of some people. Thirty years ago I wouldn't have suspected it, but now I'm like the guy who was asked "Do you believe in infant baptism? He answered "Believe in it? I've seen it with my own eyes!."

    Let the labels fly howsoever they may. It's more fun than television.
     
  10. J. Jump

    J. Jump
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2004
    Messages:
    4,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    :laugh: :laugh: Man I haven't read something that funny in a while. That is a GREAT line!:thumbsup: :applause:
     
  11. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree DHK, so I believe it would be good for the mods and the Admins to instruct those who use the term heretic for those who do not hold one of these two valid theologies and for those of us who are neither to cease from using this derogatory term.

    Bro Tony
     
  12. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    2BHiz,

    I had a pastor friend give me that book several years ago. I thought Belcher did a good job with the topic and information. There were places that I did not follow his logic as he seemed to take giant leaps to prove a point. I did not fully agree with his conclusion, but I certainly appreciated his spirit as he shared through the book.

    Bro Tony
     
  13. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yuo bunch of doo-doo heads crack me up!!!
     
  14. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could you elaborate on the points you disagreed on? I'm not seeking argument but opinion and am always open to the scriptural considerations of others.
    I'm awaiting his book, A Journey in Purity to arrive in the mail so I'd be interested in your thoughts.
    Presently I'm into By His Grace and For His Glory by T. Nettles. Have you read that?
    Blessings.
     
  15. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0

    No I have not read By His Grace yet, I would like to. The Journey Into Purity is a good book too. I read both these books about 8-10 years ago, so to tell you the truth I can't remember the finer points, I just remember my impression at the time. I may, once I get move read it again, and I would love to talk through the points with you.

    Bro Tony

    (Moving to a new community in a week, been serving as pastor in the new community for 6 months, keep us in your prayers please)
     
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    The word "heretic" as a very subjective term, and is a valid expression if one uses the simple dictionary definition. Some say it is heresy to suggest instant coffee is as good as the real thing!

    Who will define orthodox religion? Surely the RC Church defines orthodox religion, as they see it, so a Protestant may very well be an heretic. The reverse is also true. So, in the heat of debate one may very well use the term correctly.

    It is my opinion that it is a very dangerous term to use, and it may have ill effects on the opponent of debate. I should refrain from its use.

    Now as to non-Calvinists.....................I will pray for them.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #16 Jim1999, Oct 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2006
  17. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    The word "heretic" can be misused but that does not mean it does not apply. I agree with DHK and Bro Tony - it can be used to describe someone who denies the essentials of the historical Christian faith. For example, I have no problem is saying that Bishop Spong is a heretic. He denies the Virgin Birth, that Jesus bodily resurrected, and the deity of Christ.

    I think the historical doctrines of the faith are pretty apparent and are based on the Bible. Why are believers one in Christ? We are united through faith by grace and do agree on certain doctrines. I could not claim Chirstian fellowship with someone who denies the deity of Christ or the bodily resurrection, or the Trinitarian God.

    I don't think the word should necessarily be thrown around in a debate, but there is a time and place for it.

    I do not think the term heretic applies to the Calvinist-Arminian-non-Calvinist debate.


    And who will pray for the Calvinists? :laugh:
     
    #17 Marcia, Oct 14, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2006
  18. 2BHizown

    2BHizown
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, the calvinists are busy praying for the arminians!
    After being arminian for 65 yrs and then to be found by the doctrines of grace I am so overjoyed, it is like coming home, feeling safe, understanding finally where all the pieces truly fit together! However, I do appreciate prayers!
    I love studying scripture and seeing something new that seemed to not be there before! I still remember the shock I felt when I first truly saw the meaning of Acts 13:48! Wow, that was the start! I knew there must be more and couldnt stop until it found me!


    Bro Tony! Oh to be moving all of the books again! That was the biggest challenge of my last move!
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess the Arminians could. But what would really be the point if they are not sure that God's will can overcome my free will?:smilewinkgrin:

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    And why would a Calvinist pray to change someone anyway?... They are ordained to be the way they are.
     

Share This Page

Loading...