Is it wrong for Christians to observe Christmas?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Dec 5, 2003.

  1. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
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    Well its that time of year again and the question always comes up.

    I just wrote an article for my site that deals with this subject.

    Here are some excerpts:
    Please read the full article at http://www.ifbreformation.org/IsChristmasWrong.html

    Thanks,

    I look forward to you responses.

    IFBReformer
     
  2. David Mark

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    The lights are kind of cool this time of year.

    Many of the songs that are only heard around this time of year about the savior are wonderful.

    Time off from work is pretty neat too.

    Oh, and the greeting cards are nice.

    Dave.
     
  3. Johnv

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    No.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Maybe I'm missing something here, but the Bible seems clear - Romans 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." (KJV)
     
  5. Bible-boy

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    Is it wrong for Christians to celebrate the birth of their Savior? No! :rolleyes:

    Merry Chritmas! [​IMG]
     
  6. HankD

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    While some pagans did have "baptism" and ritual ablutions, the Christian practice of baptism relates directly to the "mikvah" of Judaism.

    From Judaism 101 [online at http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/m.htm ]

    HankD
     
  7. DHK

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    The Christian practice of baptism was Christian in origin, by virtue of the fact that Christ commanded it in the Great Commission of Mat.28:19,20. He did not command a pagan custom; He commanded us to baptize something to commemorate His death, burial and resurrection, and our death to our old life of sin, and our resurrection to our new life in Christ.
    I fail to see anything pagan in that.

    As for Christmas, there are many things that are pagan in its origin, both in the past, and also that continue on into the present.
    Peter says:

    1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

    In light of the above verse, that we are to be: holy (separated), a peculiar (different) people, a chosen generation, and a royal priesthood, how do you explain the following:

    Celebrating the birth of Christ on a date that he was never born on in the first place.
    What do Xmas trees have to do with the worship of Christ?
    What is the difference between Christians putting their gifts under their tree, and the Hindus putting their gifts under their trees? We are supposed to be different aren't we.

    Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

    What does Santa Claus have to do with the birth of Christ? "He knows when you've been sleeping. He knows when you're awake"--an omniscient god. Dare I say a replacement for the Biblical God?
    What does all the commercialism have to do with the birth of Christ? More money is made at this season, then at any other time of the year for businesses.

    Those are just some of the things that come into my mind immediately. There are so many others--mistletoe, wreathes, lights, etc.
    But Christ had a humble birth in a manger of an inn. It was never celebrated by New Testament beleivers, but the Resurrection certainly was. At the Lord's Table we commemorate both His death and ressurrection until He comes. Thus we look forward to His coming as well. But there is nowhere in Scripture that we have any reason to celebrate his birth (other than it takes the place of a pagan holiday, it was instituted by a pagan leader, it is a tradition that people emotionally do not want to give up)

    Even the very word in English: Christ-mass: The mass of Christ, a special mass in the Catholic Church, held at midnight on Christmas eve. Here some of its origins are in Catholicism, which is another false religion.

    Again, what is the teaching of 1Peter 2:9? Are we living up to it?
    DHK
     
  8. rstrats

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    I find it a bit puzzling why people who call themselves Christian, observe man created “religious” holidays and yet don’t observe the Biblically ordained ones.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    dhk,

    It sounds like you are "fully persuaded in your own mind." It would be wrong of course for you to observe. I as well am "fully persuaded" in my own mind so will choose to observe. According to the passage in my previous post we both have that liberty.
     
  10. DHK

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    You are quite correct that I am fully persuaded in my own mind that I have taken a Scriptural stand on this matter. But what are the implications involved? I will certainly preach about in my own church, for if I am persuaded then it is one of my convictions. I firmly believe that I am right. If I am a guest speaker I will not go out of my way to be divisive in a brother's church. To give an appropriate example: In our church we use and highly approve of the KJV. But we are NOT KJVO! A few years back we had a guest speaker invited to speak, and he devoted his entire message to the infallibility of the King James Bible. Every word (even the italics) were inspired and infallible. That is not what we believe, and it is not what we teach our people, and that particular person--well known to us, knew that it was not our position. It was unethical of him to preach a position to our people that we neither approved nor believed.
    In the same manner, I would not go out of my way to preach on a divisive issue, especially if it is basically a non-issue in respect to salvation and Godly living. I believe it does have an impact on a believer's testimony in this world. But I can get those same truths across in another way.
    However if you ask me about it, I am not ashamed to speak my mind, as I do now. I do believe in soul liberty. And that is basically what you just referred to.
    DHK
     
  11. Kiffin

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  12. Dr. Bob

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    Once I passed 50, I didn't feel like celebrating my birthday.

    This Christmas Jesus is 2009 years old. Probably doesn't want a cake or a fuss either.
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Amen DHK, thanks for a very balanced response.
     
  14. IfbReformer

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    DHK,

    How are we to be different? Are we to be different just to be different? Or are we to be different from the world by not doing the things they do that are specificly evil in and of themselves?

    For instance if red tee-shirts come into fashion, should we as Christians not wear red tee-shirts?

    Of course not, there is nothing morally wrong with wearing red tee-shirts.

    If the world has its women wearing daisy-duke shorts should we?

    Of course not, because that violates the modesty teachings of the Bible. It is inherently evil in and of itself.

    The world likes to drive cars - should we still use a horse and buggy just to be different?

    The kind of seperation you teach is never taught in the scriptures. The seperation taught in the scriptures is one that is from things that are inherently evil in and of themselves.

    Is it wrong to worship another god? Absolutely!

    Is it wrong to worship our God on the same day pagans chose to worship their God - Absolutely Not!

    As far as the famous Jeriamiah passage you quoted - what ways of the heathen are we not to learn? Is it ok to learn their language? How about their cooking styles? "the ways of the heathen" refers to practices of the heathen that are evil and have no redeemable qualities.

    Hope this helps.

    IFBReformer
     
  15. IfbReformer

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    I wish some of our brethren could see this simple truth.

    IFBReformer
     
  16. Lil Sister

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  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am not big fan of Dr Rice's writings normally, but I do remember reading this article many years agao and it having an impact on my own view of Christmas. Thanks for the link lil sis
     
  18. DHK

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    It's a good possibility.

    There was nothing morally wrong with wearing diverse types of clothing (i.e. part linen and part wool), but it was forbidden under the Mosaic law. There is nothing wrong with eating meat offered to idols. Paul says that "an idol is nothing," and "we have that knowledge." But at the same time he says, "I will eat no meat while the world stands..."
    He also says, "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient."
    "Whether therefore ye eat or drink do all to the glory of God."
    None of the above verses have anything to do with morality. Eating and drinking are not matters of morals. If all your decisions are based strictly on morals you have a very limited scope in your faith, and no doubt offend many people by your actions. For they are not based on love, only morals. There is a difference.

    I am glad we can agree on that.

    Well, that depends where you live. From where I am presently typing this post, many people would be happy for a horse and buggy. And that would be more than what I presently have for transportation--nothing. Count your blessings.

    I'll come right out and say it. You are dead wrong, and apparently don't know your Bible very well.
    There are many verses in the Bible on separation, sanctification, holiness, being a saint--all of which has to do with separation. Separated from the world and separated unto God.

    1 John 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

    Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    1 Peter 1:15-16 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    2 Timothy 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

    2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

    Separation is not simply a matter of morality but rather a matter of holiness. It is not seeing how close one can get to the line that comes between Christianity and the world; it is seeing how far away you can keep from that line, and how close you can keep to the cross. Most people don't want to cling to the cross; it cost them too much. "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, him take up his cross daily and follow me." "No man, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back is fit for the Kingdom of God. In other words: having separated yourself from this world, don't ever look back. Are you a disciple, or simply a believer hanging on by the skin of your teeth with the world in one hand and Christ in the other?

    Especially when that other god is the world.

    Yes and no. It could be. If it is a religious holiday when all the world thinks that they are celebrating the same God that you are worshipping, and in fact they are not, then yes--absolutely it is wrong. We are worshipping a different God, a different Jesus than the world. My Christ does not come in the form of Santa Claus, or the Christ of the Muslims, Hindus or of any of the variuos cults that celebrate Christmas. The druids also celebrate Christmas by worshipping trees. Are we to almagamate our religion with theirs. We now live in a global village. We are to be different, holy, separate from this world--not conformed to it.

    I only quoted one verse out of Jeremiah, not the whole passage, and that for a reason. "Learn not the way of the heathen." That is a timeless principle that we can apply to our lives at anytime, anyplace, anywhere. Do you agree? Or do you think it is okay to learn the ways of the heathen. Would it have been better for Moses to continue his life in the palace of Pharaoh, and let the nation of Israel be slaves forever in Egypt??
    DHK
     
  19. russell55

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    This is not the sort of conversation I usually get involved in, but I had to comment on this:

    This statement is just simply ludicrous. There is no distinction between holiness and righteousness or morality. What is right is what is moral is what is holy. If something is an unholy act, then it is also immoral. And if and act is not immoral, then it is not unholy.

    Concentrating on how far they could keep from the line is exactly what the Pharisees did with their "hedge around the law" policy, and lets not forget that they were soundly reprimanded by Christ because of it.
     
  20. DHK

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    I disagree. The Pharisees were condemned because they put the traditions of men above the Word of God. They bound the people by their traditions. In this way we do not have traditions, or if we do there are very few traditions, whereas the Pharisees had a whole book of them written in the Talmud.

    Separation and holiness are inseparable. How much am I willing to sacrifice for the Lord in order that I may exhibit holiness in my life. It definitely will mean giving up a worldly lifestyle. I know one couple that threw out their TV because of the influence it had on them in preventing them from becoming closer to the Lord. The way that we dress, talk, the places that we frequent, the friends that we make, the company that we keep, all have a bearing on what kind of Christian we are. Does the world know that I am a Christian by my testimony? Ye are the light of the world. Is your light hidden hidden by your infiltration into the world? That is what it is in the case of many Christians. Their music is no different than that of the world's. Their dress is no different. Their church-going habits are no different (only one time on Sunday like the Catholics). The world can't tell the difference between the average Christian and the average unsaved person because there is too much of the world in the Christian. And yet the Bible specifically say that whosoever is a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Just what does that verse mean?

    It has more to do than just simple morality. It has to do with love, respect, offending your brother, etc. Why wouldn't Paul eat meat offered to idols. It wasn't sinful. He had already stated that it wasn't in and of itself. Here is the specific quote.

    1 Corinthians 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

    Eating of meat has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with ethics which is different. It has to do with love for your brother. Paul did not want to offend the weaker brother out of love for them. He had a right to eat that meat. He forfeited his right.
    As a Chrstian, there are many "rights" we forfeit in order to become closer to God, and separated from the world. They may have nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with Godliness. How much am I willing to sacrifice for the cause of Christ? I think that is the better question to ask.
    DHK
     

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