Is it wrong to fight for America?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Shiloh, Apr 12, 2003.

  1. Shiloh

    Shiloh
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    Dr. Greg Dixon is preaching that America is dead and that it is wrong for a Christian to fight for this country. Would like to hear your opinions.
     
  2. Mike McK

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    Ecclesiastes 3:8 states that there is a "time for war and a time for peace." In these times of warfare, we often ask, "How should we respond? What should be our attitude?" We will find biblical answers for these questions when we explore the ultimate issue: What does the Word of God say about warfare?

    When a nation goes to war, God’s people need to fully understand their heavenly Father’s viewpoint about this matter. Naturally, God is not excited about war. He does not enjoy bloodshed and vengeance. However, He is dealing with a world of people who have a fallen nature—sinful, wicked and vile. Romans 3:10-11,15-17 describes mankind without God: "…there is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God. . . . Their feet are swift to shed blood, destruction and misery are in their paths, and the path of peace they have not known."

    God battles with people who oppose Him, who fight against Him and His followers. So, even though He hates war, God is not against it. Throughout the Old Testament, there are examples of God using warfare to carry out His plans, to punish the wicked and preserve His people (Deut. 9:4-6; Deut. 20; Jer. 5; Numbers 33:55-56). You may think, "How could God do that?" He says in Isaiah 55:9, "My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts." God has divine reasons for choosing to use war as a vehicle to accomplish His will.

    In Scripture, God clearly establishes the government’s responsibilities and authority over us, as well. In Romans 13:1 and 4, Paul writes, "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. . .for it [the government] is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."

    The government is ordained by God with the right to promote good and restrain evil. This includes wickedness that exists within the nation, as well as any wicked persons or countries that threaten foreign nations. Obviously, there are times when a country should not go to war; but there are also times when, if a nation does not do so, they suffer the consequences. Therefore, a government has biblical grounds to go to war in the nation’s defense or to liberate others in the world who are enslaved.

    You may think, "Well, how do we reconcile that with what Jesus said about loving our enemies and turning the other cheek?" (Luke 6:27-30) In that passage, Jesus was speaking to us as individuals. If someone treats us badly, we should love him anyway. We can pray for our enemies, and do good to those who hate us. The way someone treats an individual is one thing; the way he treats an entire nation is a completely different issue. The Bible teaches that it is the responsibility of the government’s leaders to protect the nation against those who would destroy it.

    The Bible also instructs citizens in the proper way to respond when their country goes to war. For example, it is a violation of the Word of God to refuse to defend your country if ordered. Recall Romans 13:1-2: "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God. . .Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves." According to this verse, we’re to be submissive to the laws of the land. The only reason we have for disobeying the government is if it requires us to behave in a way that clearly violates some specific verse or command of God (Acts 5:27-32).

    Someone might say, "But I can’t go to war because shooting the enemy would be murder, and the Bible says ‘you shall not murder’"(Exodus 20:13). Actually, when a man in combat shoots his enemy under the command of the government, without personal hatred, he is not committing murder. Instead, he is simply being obedient to the purpose for which he is fighting. To commit murder, a person must have vengeance and hatred against another. Many men have died on the battlefield without animosity toward anyone--they were fighting for a cause, defending or freeing their land. Therefore, if called, it is a citizen’s national and biblical responsibility to defend his country.

    Even if we do not actually participate in the fighting, we are also called to create unity and harmony within the country. We need to support whatever decisions our nation makes, as long as they do not directly violate the Word of God. How can we justify the protests and marches against war? I understand that, in America, for example, we have a right to express our different opinions. However, there comes a time when our personal opinion is not a priority. The only reason we have the freedom to protest in this country is because thousands were willing to die for that liberty in the past.

    Instead of resisting, we should offer to serve the war effort in any way possible during this time, especially by encouraging and helping the families of our soldiers. And the most important and powerful thing we can do for our nation is pray. Pray for our President, leaders, military, and even our enemies. God honors the prayers of His children and expects us to support those in authority.

    Despite the many different opinions and philosophies about war, the most important consideration is God’s viewpoint. Throughout Scripture there is evidence that God favors war for divine reasons and sometimes uses it to accomplish His will. He has also given governments and their citizens very specific responsibilities in regards to this matter. This is a frightening time for all of the world’s citizens, but it is also a time for God’s people to rise up as a unified body against the global threat of evil and terror. I challenge you, as a child of God, to respond to this conflict as He desires: with an attitude of prayer, submission, and an unwavering dependence upon your heavenly Father. - Charles Stanley


    I'd be curious to know how this Dixon character jusifies his opinion.
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Who is Dr. Greg Dixon?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    BTW, I don't think it is wrong to fight for America.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. LadyEagle

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    hi, Shiloh, if this is the same fellow, I didn't get what you said from his web site.

    http://unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com/trumpet/booklets.php

    One would think civil government would include the military, but I could be wrong.
     
  6. Istherenotacause

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    I haven't the faintest idea who Greg Dixon is, unless he's the guy I knew in Marietta, Ga. 31 years ago. It's seems just like yesterday, when the t.v. was signing off and the National Anthem was being played, he and Bobby Crawley stood and shouted "Heil-Hitler" and thrust their fore arms forward in the known salute. I couldn't be sure this is that same Greg Dixon, but it wouldn't surprize me either, being this was started on the assumption of his stating it's wrong to fight for America. Anyone who wouldn't needs to move! I bleed Red, White, and Blue! I will not attempt to tolerate socialism,communism, or Marxism. Call me politically incorrect, I don't care! Since I was saved, I became quite patriotic, and that was over ten years ago.

    I don't agree with everything that has gone on in this country, but I wouldn't dare to even hint anything against Her.

    I'd better shut this down before I get anymore upset! :mad:


    GOD BLESS THE USA! [​IMG]

    Brother Ricky
     
  7. Bartimaeus

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    Bro Rick,

    Greg Dixon was the Pastor of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple for over 40 years. I am very sure who ever you saw in Marietta, Ga is not the same person. Bro Dixon, I pray that I speak correctly for him, believes that the America of today is not the America of yesterday. IT is not the America that fought the Brittish, (in difference to Bro Stanley's weak doctrine on the civil magistrate), it is not the America that was given to us by the founding fathers. He believes it is a nation that God has pronounced judgement upon and in only a matter of time will be erased like Rome or others who have played the harlot and lost in God's scriptural plan. He asks young Christian men to consider that they are not defending America but a United Nations Pawn, he asks young Christian men to consider that the Sovereignty of our Nation has been sold for political and personal gain, the whole of which we will never know until the Lord Jesus comes again.

    Mike Mck, would you mind defining the name "character" in the way in which you used it please?

    Thanks ------Bart
     
  8. Shiloh

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    Greg Dixon "was" the pastor of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple until the Government took the building because they refused to pay the tax he owed for the school teachers. Young Greg Dixon is now starting another church in the same town. Old Dixon is going all over the country preaching the junk that America is a wicked "dead" nation......... Here are two of his henchman, check them out. http://www.link2000.net/homes/users/preacher/ and http://www.herbalhealth4all.com/victory and look under "free books".
     
  9. Mike McK

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    A person.
     
  10. Bartimaeus

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    Mr Shiloh Sir:,
    First of all you are speaking on a subject you know very little about and these issues have been discussed on the BB before and will again I hope. The only difference is we should be careful about the names we use for our Brethren and if you want to discuss the issue (debate) that is fine, I just hope you can restrain yourself.

    BTW is this thread still on "should we defend America" or is it Mr. Dixon?

    Thanks ------Bart
     
  11. Bartimaeus

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    Thank you very much Mr. Mck.


    ----------Bart
     
  12. Shiloh

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    "First of all you are speaking on a subject you know very little about"
    Excuse me, I think I know what I am talking about. I was trying to clear up just who Greg Dixon is. It seems I hit a sore spot? As a pastor I am having a lot of trouble with preachers that are protesting the war on the ground that the America today is dead. The America they approve of is the America 50 years ago. One of the preachers e-mailed 300 preachers with this question. Should we go to war for America? He stated on the e-mail that all he wanted was a yes or no. He said he accept any comments. Then he preached a message entitled, "Fighting for a dead America". In the message he stated that he had e mailed over 300 preachers and every preacher that disagreed with him had no comments or Scripture to back up their claim. I was just interested to see what kind of response I would get on here to that question. It has been very interesting!
     
  13. Bartimaeus

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    Shiloh,
    The quote in question that has been highlighted in your last quote and deals with the subject of why the building of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple were seized by the IRS. Let me make myself clear, you obviously know little about the court case involving the IBT. Dr Greg Dixon you said "was" the pastor until the IRS took the buildings. That is incorrect and Bro Greg A. Dixon (Son) did not, I repeat, did not start a new church. As far as calling Bro John S. Brown and Bro. Doug Sehorne "henchmen" is an affront to their character to which I am sure you also know nothing about.


    Thank you very much ----Bart
     
  14. Shiloh

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    Dear Bart, You say the IBT issue was not over tax, suppose Greg Dixon would have paid his tax as he was required by the Law (for his school teachers) of The United States Of America.......would the government have taken his building? I don't believe you gave an opinion to my original question. Is it wrong to go to war for America?
     
  15. Istherenotacause

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    ""He asks young Christian men to consider that they are not defending America but a United Nations Pawn, he asks young Christian men to consider that the Sovereignty of our Nation has been sold for political and personal gain, the whole of which we will never know until the Lord Jesus comes again.""

    Hi. Bartimaeus,

    I'm sorry, sir, but I do tend to preach against this type. The reason is, it only degradates our American heritage, leaves too much room for opin ion to rule over what is right or wrong in our Republic; The United Staes of America. It not only divides our nation, but is depressing to say the least. Although I would not entirely disagree with all I've read of "Mr." dixon, I stand for this country and it's present day attitude toweards freedom, liberty and the American way!
    I preach on a little a.m. radio station. The "preacher" who came on prior to my broadcast down-graded my country, calling himself American. We all came here from a foreign land, including those "native American indians" (Bearing Strait).

    I had finally had enough! The Lord led me to say something "patriotic" one morning, and I am still rejoicing that the cultist has since left the station and went on amatuer radio. I simply said, "If you don't like the way America is then LEAVE! Go start yourself a new nation and quit running this one down! Take the actions necessary to improve Her, edify Her, or get out!"

    Since there is no "new frontier", except Antartica, I suggest we ALL take the initiative to make improvements and starting 50 years ago! (or more). Quit sitting around murmuring and complaining, and stand behind this nation! I remember all through my childhood, when something truly patriotic was declared, I couldn't help but feel the fire in my soul for this nation. But when it only appealed to my sympathies, I was left standing wide open for the devil to ensnare me, (peace movements and the such). :( :(

    I will go on to say, that our beloved president, George Bush, is a true leader in the fight for freedom, justice, liberty, and the American way! :D

    I thank the Good LORD for him, and will continue to fight for this country, overland and over sea, even right here amongst the citizens if necessary, and what a shame that would be, if we can't wake up and smell the roses. Some right here in our own garden are starting to emit a rather pungent and disgraceful odor! [​IMG] :mad: [​IMG]

    GOD BLESS AMERICA! She's still free, and she's still the best nation upon this planet! And I think President Bush quelled the rhetoric that we are just a UN pawn!!!!! The UN is nothing more than a lame duck! and a circle of greed! All they want to do now is reap the benefits of what we and the Coalition stuck our necks out to accomplish, Iraq is now on her way to a democracy! PRAISE THE LORD! And I', sure a few of the Iraqis are doing the same!~ [​IMG]


    Looking forward to the celebreation of our troops coming home and to reverently salute those who fought valiantly to preserve our freedoms, especially those who lost their lives fighting for a JUST cause! Praise the LORD! Praise Him for His Holiness! Praise Him that the POW's arte found and have been set free! America, The Beautiful! God shed His Grace on thee! She's still the land of the free, and the home of the brave!

    Put that in your sock and wear it! Pull out that "Old Glory" and wave it through the air!

    I told the local merchants on Sept. 13, 2001 to take down their little harvest banners and put up our flag! Would you believe they even frowned and cursed at me for it? They must have been reading some of this Dixon's literature themselves!


    Brother Ricky, An American without cowardness, A Christian without shame!
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    To have the privileges of being a citizen of a nation requires corelating responsibilities.

    Paying taxes, obeying laws, jury duty, serving in military (if conscripted or volunteer), et al. I AM AN AMERICAN and thus have to live a responsible life.

    Remember when they asked Jesus a similar question about taxes and He answered by showing a coin with the inscription of Rome? Render to Caesar . . Render to US Government.

    Rome was a WHOLE LOT WORSE than the US, right, and Jesus was faithful to abide by its laws. And die by them.

    Methinks Greg Dixon could learn a lesson before staging another sit-in in his now-confiscated church.
     
  17. Bartimaeus

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    Shiloh,
    In that you want to digress and that you have asked me a question I will answer. Let's see what you know.

    1)In this thread I do not believe I have said the issue was not over a tax. Can you quote me on that?
    2) What law was Bro Dixon in violation of that caused him to lose his building?
    3) Were there any taxes paid at all?

    I served as a Law Enforcement Specialist (K-9) Bomb and Narcotic Certified for 10 ys 2 mos. and was honorably discharged from the USAF in May 1985. My record speaks for itself. I do not regret that I have served my country, I am thankful, satisfied and at peace with God about it.

    Thank you ------Bart
     

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