Is John 16:8 a limited reproof?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Roy1, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. Roy1

    Roy1
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    In John 16:8 a limited reproof?

    From the text, (or from any other text),what is the extent of the Holy Spirit’s working in the world?

    Roy. [​IMG]
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    It is hard to be dogmatic - to me the context makes it looks like He came to reprove the whole world of sin, but cosmos doesn't always have to mean the whole world.
     
  3. LaymansTermsPlease

    LaymansTermsPlease
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    The same word kosmos is used for world in the following verse too. It draws a distinction in that the disciples are not considered part of the world.

    and later in chapter 16

    This certainly looks like kosmos is to mean a group that doesn't include the disciples.

    To me it looks like definition 6 below...the ungodly multitude. I could certainly be wrong, anyone else have a take on this? Maybe someone who's actually been to school instead of an amateur like me [​IMG]


     
  4. npetreley

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    I agree, and there's plenty of evidence for that. But tell that to the Arminians who quote John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 as if it MUST mean the whole world because it fits their doctrine.

    Here are two examples of "kosmos" from the same book, same chapter.

    1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

    1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
     
  5. Ray Berrian

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    These verses were cited.

    1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

    Ray: It is clear that 'our sins' refers to the transgressions of the saints. The physical cosmos does not sin, we merely stand on it. ' . . . for our sins, and not for ours only {but whose?} which, of course, are the sins of the non-elect. Christ's atonement is sufficient for all, but is only effective in the lives of God's people. At the judgment, sinners will have no excuse for not receiving Christ and everlasting life. Only their unbelief and rebellion will have damned their never dying souls.

    1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    Ray: We are not to love this world's system of thinking and doing. Our attentions should not be on material things, but focused on the Lord our God. If we love this world's system of thinking, seeing and doing, then we do not truly love our Lord.
     
  6. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Roy;
    Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    To reprove the world of sin means that the one who comes will place the blame of sin where it belongs. The Holy Spirits Job is to convict and convince men of there sins. To bring them to repentance. To convince men of the righteousness that is placed on men for believing in Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit is also our comforter. He lives with in those who believe in Jesus.
    May God Bless You; [​IMG]
    Mike
     
  7. npetreley

    npetreley
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    It could also mean "not ours only" (as in the elect readers and the author) but also for the whole world (as in the rest of the elect spread all over the world).

    In other words, both those who believe in total atonement and those who believe in limited atonement can read into the verse whatever they wish.
     
  8. npetreley

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    It is also the "job" of the Holy Spirit to glorify Jesus. [sarcasm] So you know it must be inspired by the Holy Spirit when someone says, "I believed of my own free will!" [/sarcasm]
     
  9. Roy1

    Roy1
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    I must admit I am a little surprised at the muted response so far by those that have replied. Arguments are usually a little more animated on both sides.

    It seems clear from vs 9 that there is definitely more than the disciples and the, “elect,” in view because Jesus talks about their sin of unbelief.

    Any more thoughts on the work of the Holy Spirit in the world, specifically in the lives of the unsaved?

    Is He given just to further condemn the world? In that the world is rightly condemned already and deserving of punishment. Is the Spirit given cover Gods back in that He can at least say well I tried but ye would not, “Could not,” turn to me. You chose your natural leanings and bent towards sin.

    Is God really saying that the reproof of the Spirit of God is unfelt by some? And given for the, “world of the elect?”

    Roy
     

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