Is Legalism a "Higher" Standard?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    On [another] thread on women's attire, a poster said there is always attack on the HIGHER standard.

    That does not sit well. ADDING man-made regulations to what the Bible teaches to gain favor with God is called "legalism", not "higher" standard.

    And WHO would then have "higher" standards than even the frumpiest Baptist who somehow believes slacks are sinful? Why, the AMISH for sure. And MOSLEMS most certainly.

    The phrase "higher" standards is another self-righteous pat-on-the-back for those who follow some code that is NOT in the Word.

    The higher standard my wife/daughter hold to is found in the Bible. Modesty.
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    "Higher" would seem to be totally a personal opinion.
     
  3. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    I often wondered, if the concept of woman not wearing slacks, was based on the fact that they are considered manly. In the Torah, a man wearing womanly things is forbidden. Never really thought about it much. Interesting question Bob.
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, legalism is a more extreme standard. Nothing more or less. That's all.
     
  5. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, Amen, Amen
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    C4 - When I spoke at a huge Nazarene Camp Meeting in Arizona, they took me aside prior to preaching and asked if I would respect their "higher" standards of dress.

    Now I had a suit with me, but it was about 95F and did not want to wear the coat. But they assured me it was a "higher" standard than Baptists - they did not want (1) Flesh showing nor (2) ornamentation.

    So I would have to wear a long sleeved shirt; short sleeves were "lower" standard of Baptists.

    And take off my wedding and class rings so that as I waved an arm during preaching, I would not automatically "turn off" people who felt I was in the pulpit with "low" Baptist standards.

    BTW, I did abide by their guide. I was a guest in their pulpit. They were also concerned about my gold wire-rimmed glasses but I assured them I was blind sans specs. They wished I had some plain black plastic frames. But they did allow me to preach.

    Baptists have some really LOW standards in light of some other evangelical groups, eh?
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Higher standards are not always legalistic. Sometimes they are biblical. The difficulty is that some unbiblical Christians want to add to the Bible's standards, and some unbiblical Christians want to mock those who live by the Bible's standards as legalistic.
     
  8. Helen

    Helen
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Helen2.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    11,703
    Likes Received:
    1
    The issue of women's dress, as much as I hate these threads and have hated them since I was a moderator here, is a DIFFERENT standard and not necessarily a higher one. In many cases, it is not even a legalistic standard, but simply reflects the desire of many women to separate themselves from the world's ways and the unisex clothing of today which, to them, does not fit a biblical standard.

    It should be respected as such and not derided.

    I am saying this after having just cleaning out our stalls (singing "Super Pooper" to the tune of "Super Trouper...") and wearing jeans and a definitely unisex warm sweatshirt! My husband is standing behind me chuckling, so I don't think my attire is putting him off. Nevertheless I respect the women who dress differently simply because they believe it fits a more biblical standard.

    It is legalism when they say that we women HAVE to do that in order to meet a biblical requirement. But what they are doing is something they see as part of a higher standard. I call it a slightly different standard but I understand and respect it and wish others here would, too.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    I preached in a church in Ohio one August. It was well over 100F outside, the church was moderately full, so inside it was even higher than that.

    The church had a "high" standard about wearing a coat in the pulpit so I ruined a suit by soaking it with sweat. I was dripping so badly that when I was showing deputation water was dripping off my hands.

    But, we had to keep the "higher" standard.

    I once phoned a church in northern Mississippi for a meeting. The second question was "We have pretty high standards here. Do you have any facial hair?"

    I wanted to answer, "Do you besides my eyebrows, eye lashes, and nose hair?" but resisted. When I admitted I wore a moustache the pastor told me their standards would not permit them to let me preach there.

    "Higher?" Somehow I doubt that. "Different?" Maybe.
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Higher standards are often biblical. Legalistic standards are never higher, not biblical.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Legalism is a lower standard. Those who are legalistic are in bondage and not free in Christ.
     
  12. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    There are not higher standards. The standard is Christ being led by the Holy Spirit.

    A legalistic person can appear to do all the right things and dress properly and be lost as a goose.
     
  13. FBCPastorsWife

    FBCPastorsWife
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well said Pastor Larry! [​IMG]
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Jesus would have never been welcomed there to preach. Just imagine where his razor was.

    The really sad thing but yet great thing was when I preached in a chruch and a lady attended. Later that day the pastor and myself wisited her. She gave her life to Christ that day when we visited her. She told the story of going to the church at the end of her road and was sent away because she had pants and her hair wasn't long enough. Fortunately she did attend the next week at my friend's church when I was preaching. She is stil doing well today.

    So I guess those legalistic churches do serve a purpose. It keeps the same kind of people locked in the same box and out of other churches causing problems.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure there are. Leaders have to live by a higher standard, and they do so because of their responsibility. To say that "standard is Christ being led by the Holy Spirit" is true, but not very helpful. Many people, claiming that standard, have left their wives or husbands, abandoned their children, lived together without being married, stolen things, gotten drunk, etc. etc. etc.

    Yes, indeed. And a lady who won't wear pants can bey very godly.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure there are. Leaders have to live by a higher standard, and they do so because of their responsibility. To say that "standard is Christ being led by the Holy Spirit" is true, but not very helpful. Many people, claiming that standard, have left their wives or husbands, abandoned their children, lived together without being married, stolen things, gotten drunk, etc. etc. etc.

    Yes, indeed. And a lady who won't wear pants can bey very godly.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Does wearing ONLY or NEVER wearing skirts/dresses MAKE one more "godly" and earn favor with God?

    No to both

    Same with suit/tie for a man. And people who force man-made tradition/legalism as a "sign" of righteousness are in grave error.
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    If wearing a suit and tie for men was godly then Jesus was very ungodly. He probably smelled like the animals and didn't have western attire of fine clothes and jewelry.

    In fact James talks about how we are to treat people in the assembly.
     
  19. Psalm 100

    Psalm 100
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2005
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never questioned or mocked any lady who chose to dress in long dresses or skirts. That is their conviction. It is not legalistic if it's done out of their reverance for God, not man.

    It's when you are told you must dress like this, that pants are "eeevulllll" (as a former pastor used to pronounce it), or some similar nonsense that is used for control, that we wander into legalism.

    In the same manner, some women (and men) should be spoken to about the style of their dress and the distractions it causes.
     
  20. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    In similar manner, discernment is needed to objectively and properly discern if the distraction is on the part of the distractor, or the distractee. A tank top and shorts worn to church in Honolulu will likely not be distracting. In Utah, it would most likely be distracting.
     

Share This Page

Loading...