Is Liberalism Immoral? Why we must save the American work ethic.

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by mandym, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. mandym

    mandym
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    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/293615/liberalism-immoral-mona-charen
     
  2. gb93433

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    The article reminds me of the time I had a conversation with an 84 year old man who had been a farmer most of his life and was complaining about America and taxes. I told him as an employer I would love to either have everyone pay their own way and their own insurance. We should have it the same as it was 50 years ago when the elderly had to pay for their own insurance and there was no such thing as Medicare. I told him that I would love not to pay taxes so he could pay his own insurance and take care of himself. He never said another word. He finally understood that his medical bills were being paid by the younger generation and he did not have to do much of that for his parents.
     
  3. Oldtimer

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    If memory serves, Medicare came into being in 1965. I went to work in 1966. Every check that I received during my working life had a Medicare "insurance" premium deducted from it. In addition to social security deduction, so that I would have "security" when I became eligible for it and quit working. Full social security benefits would not kick in for me until age 66.

    My mother died before she became old enough to draw a single check. My father lived only a short time after he became eligible. My SIL died at age 47, after working all her adult life. Most of my maternal aunts and uncles died in their late 50's / early 60's (cancer runs in my family).

    Don't tell me that the younger generations are paying for my Medicare. My parents, SIL, uncles and aunts contributed, without any material personal benefit. In some cases, none at all.

    Plus.....

    If I had been allowed to control the investment of all the dollars I've paid to the government for my "security", I could afford to pay for my own insurance. I realized many, many years ago, that the ROI on my personal investments was much greater than what the government was doing with the money they TOOK from me. On top of that, instead of the government keeping my money in a lock box and wisely investing it, the Congress "borrowed" it and left IOU's.

    Oh, one more thing... After making all those "insurance" payments over the years for my FUTURE medical needs, I still have to pay monthly premiums. PLUS, supplemental Medicare insurance premiums to a private company to help cover the increasing amounts Medicare won't pay.

    So, as now one of the elderly, I'm still paying out of my pocket for my insurance.
     
  4. gb93433

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    In your case I agree. I have also seen much the opposite too. Do you know how much your employer contributes? As an employer if all those perks were done away with I could put a lot more in my bank account. Why should any employer pay 1/2 of your social security contribution and all of your unemployment insurance? What shall I do if unemployed? Who helps me? Will you? So if America did away with all benefits by employers and everyone had to pay their own way then perhaps some employees might really find out how good they have it now.
     
  5. Oldtimer

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    I don't disagree with you.

    Oh, don't forget that self-employed persons pay both halves of SS themselves. I know I did.

    I'm for phasing out all of the "social" programs that have been put in place since the 1930's and 1940's. Never thought the unemployment tax was right. Something I didn't realize existed until I had to deal with payroll at one of my former jobs.

    BTW, that phasing out, includes employer sponsored group insurance plans. Get the employer out of the picture. People should purchase all of their insurance just as they buy auto insurance. Naturally, there'd have to be modification of the current environment for that to be effective. Take the limitations off with regards to who I can go to for medical insurance coverage. Let me buy it from a firm in California or New York, if that's my choice. It shouldn't be controlled by the state of NC as to who can/can't sell insurance here, as long as it's a legimate company.

    Further, throw out the tax code with regards to income tax. In its place, first do what was done before income was considered to be a revenue source for government. Then, if a REAL VALID reason still exists to tax income, write up a 5-10 page income tax code. Tax personal income at, say 10%, of gross. Period. For business income, tax at, say 10%, of net income. (Sales, less cost of goods sold and freight) Capital gains, in either situation, would carry the same tax rate as ordinary income. No exemptions. No tax credits. No reductions in income for group insurance, salaries paid, interest on property, etc. & etc.

    Phase out the the "social" feeding trough. Phase in personal responsibility. People, like myself, have been trapped into this system for so long, there's no opportunity left for a real do-over. People just starting out have the rest of their working lives (40-50 years or so) to build for their future. For those in mid-life would have some type of modification, as they've already paid into a system that's being dismantled.
     
  6. gb93433

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    One thing that grabbed my attention when I was in high school was when I saw a group of students catch the bus every day. As I got to know them they were saddened as they told their story. They were rather shamed. When I saw their dad I was shocked. When I asked them what happened they told me that their dad had lost both of his legs in a dynamite blast where he had been working. They had to sell their home because they could not afford the mortgage payment. They ended up living in a shack of a house.

    Some years later I had a roommate who was blind from birth. He got a job after graduation that paid quite well until the company he was working for lost the money they were given by the government to employ people like him. Today he receives about $1,000 a month for doing nothing. He is able to work but nobody will hire him. He hates not working. Today a lot of churches will not hire people to work because the insurance company does not want to assume the liability.

    I am convinced that the insurance companies and banks run America not the people. When was the last time you saw a bank lose any money on a mortgage loan?

    I am all for helping people well who truly need it but against helping the lazy. When I was in Finland the unemployment rate was 0.5% at that time. The people cannot understand why Americans want to retire early. If someone wanted to get training so they could change jobs and get more pay they would be given enough money to be trasined in a government run vocational school that helped them to get both training and work. The people could draw welfare but it was about 1/2 of what we give out here. By training the people it helped people get a better paying job. All schooling was free. Each student was interviewed before they were accepted. One who is educated and trained will pay more taxes and benefit society. Why give education to only those who can afford it? When I taught high school I had a majority of students who came from Mexico who did not very often have above a sixth grade education. Every year the valedictorian was a student who had been born in Mexico. That student went onto one of the most prestigious universities in America. What does that say about American students.

    Today the majority of students in college are women.
     
  7. billwald

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    >When I asked them what happened they told me that their dad had lost both of his legs in a dynamite blast where he had been working.

    No workman's comp in your state? He should at least be getting Social Security disability.

    Retirement - no point being the richest guy in the graveyard.
     
  8. gb93433

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    It was in 1970. So I do not know. I never kept up with them.
     
  9. Crabtownboy

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    Jesus was the perfect liberal. He believed in work and in helping others.
     
  10. targus

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    Liberals believe in work? When did that start? :laugh:
     
  11. Salty

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    And what did Paul tell us in II Thes 3:10
     
  12. J.D.

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    It used to be called the Prostestant Work Ethic, not the American. This is because it was the protestants that are credited with the idea that work is one's ministry to God, unlike the catholics that had separated worship out as that which is done only at a mass or in a monestary, everything else being unassociated with our relationship to God.
     

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