Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by jcf, Feb 10, 2005.
Is Mary the mother of YAHWEH?
She is never called The Mother of GOD in all of scripture.
There IS a difference betwee INCARNATION and PROCREATION. The RCC would like to bury that point in the depths of the sea.
Despite what Mr Ryan says the RCC does NOT claim that Mary is the Mother of God as in the Trinity.
What a foul lie!
Nevertheless they do refer to her as mediatrix
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Are you kinding, Mary the mother of God is one of their main beliefs along with Mary the eternal virgin and born without sin also known as the, immaculate conception.
full of grace,
the Lord is with you.
Blessed are you among women
and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
Holy Mary, mother of God,
pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death.
Depends, was Marys egg used?
Yep, to Ben.
OK, a quick flick around the θηοτοκοσ ...
1. Mary was mother of Jesus.
2. Jesus was and is God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the λογοσ Incarnate
3. Therefore Mary is/ was the mother of God in that above sense.
4. She is not mother of God in any other sense eg: mother of the Trinity as a whole or the First or Third Persons thereof, nor is/ was she the mother of the Second Person as pre-Incarnate λογοσ
NB: don't forget that the term θηοτοκοσ was originally a Christological statement not a Mariological statement, arising from the Christological controversies and Ecumenical Councils of the 5th century
Yours in Christ
[ETA: forgive me, but I can't remember whether I should be using an ω instead of an ο at any point as the 'o' in theotokos - perhaps someone more learned or with a better memory than me can correct if necessary!]
Sounds fair enough that if Mary was the mother of Jesus then she was the mother of God, yet what we need to bear in mind is that just because we see the family unit in a certain way, it does not mean that is how it is seen in the heavenlies, remember that there is no marriage in heaven for example!
No she is not. The Son was God long before His incarnation.
Did she give birth to Him or not?
Yours in Christ
Mary was the "birth-giver" (Theotokos) of God because the One she bore in her womb was God Incarnate from conception. That's why she is called "Mother of God", not because she was somehow chronologically prior to God or was the ontologically source of the ousia of the Holy Trinity. Nor does the title imply that the Eternal Son, the Logos, was not God prior to His Incarnation in the Virgin's womb. It means the One she conceived by the Holy Spirit, carried in her womb for nine months, and gave birth was (and is) God.
As Matt said, Theotokos was meant to say more about who Christ is when the title was solemnly and dogmatically ascribed to Mary at the Counsil of Ephesus in 431. (Of course, Mary was called "Theotokos" by the Fathers for at least 200 years before the "official" declaration, so it wasn't a novelty introduced after Constantine allegedly "paganized" Christianity.)
The term actually means "God-bearer" rather than "Mother of God", IIRC
Yours in Christ
And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Matt, technically that is correct.
Sorry to be a pedant!
Yours in Christ
It was NOT Mary's egg, Mary was nothing but a surogate mother. She is the mother of Jesus by the law. If it was her egg, he would have inherited the sin nature.
Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Shall be called, a reference to his FLESH, not deity!!! He was God from everlasting.
Jer 31:22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth , A woman shall compass a man.
If it was Mary's egg, it wouldn't be a new thing.
Gen3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed ; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Notice it says seed, the seed is from the man. Thus Jesus has God's blood and not Mary's.
Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
If it was her egg, she would have had sex with God and thus not been a virgin.
Holy Spirit insemination... not sex with God.
Notice it says "made of a woman". Christ derived His humanity from Mary. He is the "seed of David" through Mary.
No one is arguing that He wasn't.
A Virgin Birth is a new thing in and of itself.
Notice it says "her seed". That contradicts your logic right there. Plus the only way Christ has blood is by being human, born of Mary. The Eternal Father does not have blood.
And He got that blood by being Incarnate in Mary.
Now you are just being ridiculous.
And here is proof --
Mother of "my lord" would suffice even today.
But the RCC is not happy with that - since lord can apply to a wide range of persons. They need to change the NT text so that Peter now calls Mary "Mother of God" as should all good Catholics.
Sadly - such an endorsement for Mary is never found given by ANY Apostle in all of the NT.
But then - that's the way it is with the contrast between facts of scripture - and traditions of the RCC. (At least in the case of mariolotry)