Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Politics' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 18, 2012.
Simple question - Is Muslin Right to Worship Protected By the Free Exercise Clause?
Yes, absolutely. Islam has been seen as a religion since the founding of the State.
Absolutely they do.
The treaty of Tripoli (?) signed by George Washington recognized them as a legit religion and promised we would not hold their religion against them.
From Ben Franklin's autobiography
Good point - it was President Adams who signed it and here is the pertinent text.
Note - I reworded the question to better reflect what I would like to see discussed.
Well I voted yes, but then I reconsidered.
Muslim religious speech (even if we don't like it) is their right under free speech.
Muslim rights of worship are covered under freedom of religion and freedom of assembly.
It makes sense to me however that all these rights are included together under the first amendment. You can't have freedom of religion without freedom of speech and assembly. And religion would be quite limited if it couldn't print scriptures, etc or if it wasn't allowed to petition the government when it's rights were offended or when it saw the need for a new law or a challenge of an old one.
While the technical answer is "yes" I had to vote no. The reason I did so is because Islam is not purely a religion. It does have an aspect of faith to it, however it is more a political and judicial movement. That being the case they would not have freedom as a religion. However, they would be protected by free speech.
All that said, if we really understood the nature of our current conflict we would see them as the enemy of the state that they are and thus, be restricted on those grounds. For an in-depth article on the current conflict I encourage you to read this article. http://www.nps.edu/Academics/centers/ccc/publications/OnlineJournal/2007/Mar/chamberlinMar07.html
My issue with that is from the earliest days of the State (and before) Islam was recognised as a religion and therefore when the Constitution was written it would have included Islam in the 'free exercise' aspect. Based in Franklin's quote above Islam was well known already.
The Treaty of Tripoli indicated that there would be difficultly differentiating between the religious and political aspects, but indicated the the religious aspect was inviolable.
Thanks for the article - I hate reading on the computer so sent it to my Kindle to read later.
As I said, speaking of Islam strictly as a religion I would have voted yes. It would be protected by the free exercise clause. Since studying the crusades a couple of years ago and looking closer at Islam today, I cannot justify thinking of it as a purely religious issue....which is why I ended up voting no.
I would have an easier time regulating Muslim political speech if it were seditious than infringing on their right to free exercise of the religious aspect.
So, calling for general violence against, and enslavement of, non-Muslim is ok with you as long as it is not directly seditious against the US? I thought hate crime laws would come into play sooner, rather than later.
Disappointed. Was appreciating a civil discussion for a change.
My point is that since before day one Muslims have enjoyed the free exercise of religion in America. I don't see how that can be changed now, and I would not want it changed.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
Thanks for the correction. Note that the treaty was made by the States (plural) and NOT with the United States (singular).
Second, when did any official hostility first start between the States and a Muslim nation? When Iran invaded our embassy during the Carter administration?
Of course it is. To deny Muslims the right to practice and worship is against the basic principles of the American experiment.