Is Physical Death the Penalty for Sin?

The wages of sin is death (spiritual death).

I do believe mankind has been cursed with physical death, too. Not having access to the Tree of Life being the reason.

 

HP, death is separation. When we die physically, our souls are separated from our bodies. When we die spiritually, our souls are separated from God. I don't know what else you are after.

 

I told you from what.

Do you believe Enoch's corruptible body was fit for Heaven?

 

...so when Scripture also tells us that it is appointed unto man once to die, we have to run that verse through the Enoch filter? Scripture never contradicts, so one has to give.

 

The only proof for death not being death as normally understood is that 2-3 people have not died and that the sentence has not been served instantly. The burden lies on those trying to convince us that death is not physical death.

HP: "To state ones belief may be honorable but lacks muster to convince."

Convincing someone with a preconceived notion based on a theological position is difficult indeed.

What scriptural support is their for this thing called spiritual death? Can a spirit really die? (Please resist jumping in Bob :smilewinkgrin: )

If the penalty for sin was dying spiritually, did Jesus die spiritually for us?

Adam's separation from God was to keep him from the tree of life "lest he eat of it and live forever". He died because of that separation. In that sense his physical death was a consequence.

CONSEQUENCE, n. [L., to follow.]

1. That which follows from any act, cause, principle, or series of actions. Hence, an event or effect produced by some preceding act or cause.


God told Adam to not eat of the tree. It was the first "law" in the Bible. Adam suffered because of his trespass. In that sense it was a penalty.

PEN'ALTY, n.

1. The suffering in person or property which is annexed by law or judicial decision to the commission of a crime, offense or trespass, as a punishment.

Jesus paid the penalty for my sin (and of the whole worlds) but I am still subject to the consequences of Adam's sin.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

 

So you filter all of mankind through an isolated incident? That's like filtering "For God so loved through the world" through "...Esau I hated".

The hope I have is that the Lord comes soon :thumbs:
I think Pastor Bob did a good job of explaining death already, and I cannot add much more to that.

 

No access to the Tree of Life. That privilege was removed upon A&E eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

 

Your questions have been repeatedly answered in spite of the fact that you have chosen to disregard the answers. You engage in what is referred to as "subjective validation." You have a habit of ignoring or down-playing the counter evidence thus making it tiresome to continue the discussion with you.

Physical death is the separation of the soul and the body. All men experience this death, even Elijah and Enoch and those to be taken in the rapture. Had Adam not sinned, this death would not have been passed to all men.
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Physical death

HP: I notice you placed this in bold for us. If Jesus literally paid the penalty for our sins, and the penalty for our sins is physical death, then why do believers that have had their sins paid for by Christ still have to suffer physical death? Was the death of Christ unable to succor that for which it was intended, or is double jeopardy in play

Are you willing to wait for the inheritance to be delivered?

I Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

I Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time

I COr 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 

I believe we are "saved by grace through faith"

and we are

"kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." I Peter1:5

I say I believe in ONEconditional eternal security: that is, faith. We need to stop asking "Can we lose our salvation?". I think it is simply "can we stop believing?" The following verse tells me keep believing and encourage my brothers to as well.

Heb.3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Note: it is not sin that makes us "lose" our salvation. It is unbelief. There is something about sin that can harden our hearts.

Our father Abraham was tested, we ought to expect the same:

Heb. 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

Heb. 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The willful sin, I believe, is not doing a sin that you know is a sin (that is really the only kind of sin there is), it is turning from the faith. Where that line is, God only knows. We also have God giving amazing promises about keeping us from that point, so I think it is a rare occurance.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise.

Heb. 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

These are not verses dealing with rewards. One of the greatest tests, if not the greatest test, is death.