Is Post modernism contrary to historical and biblical Christianity?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Aug 11, 2008.

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Is Post-Modernism contrary to hstorical and biblical Christianity?

  1. Yes

    17 vote(s)
    68.0%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Some aspects are

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  4. I do not know

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    This was brought up in another thread and is a good question. What reason do you have for your answer?
     
    #1 Revmitchell, Aug 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2008
  2. ReformedBaptist

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    I answered in the affirmative, yes postmodernism is contrary to historic and biblical Christianity. Why?

    1. Postmodernism denies the knowability of Truth. It denies truth itself claiming it does not exist but is the product of one's culture. This denies the objective truth of Christianity.

    2. Postmodernism denies that truth corresponds to reality. They assert that there is no foundation on which knowledge or reality is based. This is denial of Jesus Christ and a denial of the ressurection of Christ.

    3. There is no such thing as objectivity. This is an denial of God.

    Source: The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict. The definitions for postmodernism are from the book. The comments are mine.
     
  3. go2church

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    It's an interesting question, but begs another question, what human system of thought is not contrary to Biblical Christianity? The question seems to suggest that modernism is compatible is with Biblical Christianity. It was modernism which led to much of the theological liberalism of the 19th and 20th century.

    Also not everything that is considered historical Christianity would be considered Biblical Christianity.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    My intention is to discuss this in the context of those who are post modern among Evangelicals. Those who insist that the church needs to change on order to be relevant. Usually they bear the label emerging or emergent.
     
  5. tinytim

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    No, Postmodernism is a cultural shift away from modernism...

    As as a cultural shift, it has nothing to do with Christianity.

    We as Christians must learn to be effective in a Postmodern culture.

    Sure there are things in the Postmodern thought that are contrary to Biblical Christianity.. but there were things wrong with the modernist'
    thought also... like thinking humanist knowledge would lead to to absolute truth.

    Actually, I am finding that people in postmodern thought are more open to spirituality than modernists...

    Postmodernists have given up on making the world better through humanism... And are now awaking to the thought that there is something more than what Science can prove...

    This is where we can step in... And show them the truth.
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    We can label and libel fellow believers all day long if we choose, or we can look to join with people who are passionate about reaching the unchurched and dechurched with the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a very real way. Regardless of where we each stand on the issues surrounding how we approach (or don't approach) unchurched and dechurched people in culture we still must figure out if we actually are going outside of the walls of our collective huddles and reaching out to these people who need the power of Christ's salvation in their lives. We can argue and bicker and snipe at each other all day, but if we actually aren't moving people into a place where God can reveal His plan of salvation in their lives all of our words are moot.

    as for the poll: I don't believe postmodernism is in contradiction to "historical and[/or] biblical Christianity." Postmodernism is about an epistemological and axiological shift in our culture. It is paradigmatic and touches on all aspects of how we exist. It is no more opposed to biblical and/or historical Christianity (however you choose to define that) than modernism or premodernism. It is no more the friend of biblical and/or historical Christianity (again my cavaet) than modernism or premodernism before it. It isn't good, it isn't bad, it just is. The enemy of our Christianity is not, and will not be postmodernism. The enemy of our mutual Christian faith is the adversary, Satan, who seeks to destroy so many, and has gotten to use the Church to do it for far too long. We can rant and ramble about how things will work under an epistemological post-foundationalist hermeneutic in conference and on message boards for days, months, and years and the reality of the situation is that no amount of any of that will ever change the world. It is often just pointless bloviations from puffed up intellectuals who often enjoy standing behind pulpits and podiums and lecturing people about the art of fishing even though their hands haven't touched a fishing pole in eons.

    Postmodernism isn't an enemy or a friend of biblical and/or historical Christianity (whichever version you choose to read) anymore than modernism or premodernism was neither the friend nor the enemy. Cultural paradigmic shifts just happen and the Church exists in them and inspite of them. I have read and written exhaustively on this issue (postmodernism specifically) and it really amounts to very interesting conversions that go nowhere if we forget what the fishing rod really feels like.

    Show me a person who is really out there reaching people who need the sweet aroma of the Gospel and not sniping at fellow believers and has the time to really get into this conversation and I'll sit and listen to them. Otherwise we can probably just go on about our tasks.

    My $.02 please keep the extra change. :)
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Actually post modernism is tagging "spirituality" on to their humanism to justify their actions and put a salv on their guilty consciences.
     
  8. Allan

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    I voted yes as well.
    I also agree with RB on this
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    Interesting. Is PJ correct? Is Postmodernism amoral?
     
    #9 Revmitchell, Aug 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2008
  10. Marcia

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    I agree with you TinyTim in regards to secular postmoderns. But postmodernism has made its way into the church and this is where I am alarmed at what I am seeing.
     
  11. Marcia

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    I don't think it is sniping when one responds to teachings that undermine scripture and the gospel. In fact, we are supposed to measure all teachings by scripture and warn people when there are dangerous teachings.

    From what I've read and seen with the postmodern movement in the church, this is needed. It is not sniping. I am not against anyone but I will not stay silent when people say the Bible is a "human product," we don't really know what the gospel is, Christians on the right are "mentally ill," and false dichotomies fly right and left (example: people who care about doctrine don't care about taking care of people).

    Another thing - these people refute themselves. McLaren has just given a big tour on his book, Everything Must Change, and yet he himself is always ambigous when asked about hell or homosexuality and other issues. He and others say we can't be certain of anything, but "Everything Must Change" is a pretty strong statement of certainty!

    A big irony: The postmoderns make claims about the problems of modernity but ironically the postmodern Christians are growing more and more liberal, which is the result of modernism. Strange, isn't it?

    The view that there are no absolutes, we can't know much about God, the Bible is "iffy" as God's word, panentheism, and inclusivism are coming out of this Christian postmodernism. It is not a pretty sight.
     
  12. Psalm 95

    Psalm 95
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    I think postmodernism is really problamatic both in science and in christianity. And in reallity, many postmoderns really act lika modernists when it comes to everyday interaction with reallity, you know, reallity bits back if you try to manipulate it to much.
     
  13. stilllearning

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    Hi Marcia

    You said.....
    Please elaborate.

    How is it manifested, within the Church?
    “What have you been seeing?”
     
  14. stilllearning

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    Hello again Marcia

    Never mind:
    --------------------------------------------------
    You have already answered my questions.

    Thank you.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Actually McLaren is very clear on his position on hell.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOUfsX2fbk
     
    #15 Revmitchell, Aug 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2008
  16. Marcia

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    Very good point!
     
  17. Marcia

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    What is his position? I heard that he denied hell but in sort of a non-obvious way so that some were still questioning his position. I'm wondering.
     
  18. stilllearning

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    Hi Revmitchell


    You said........
    What is his position?
     
  19. stilllearning

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    I should just back off and wait.

    All of my questions are being asked and answered, while I am typing them!
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    Well in truth I had to go back and post a link to Mclarens view after posting. your questions was reasonable not knowing would go back.
     

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