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Is ProTeens a good organization?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by JudyBan, Mar 3, 2005.

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  1. JudyBan

    JudyBan New Member

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    My daughter's youth group just started using ProTeens materials this year. They are going through The Holy War book. Several of the parents are very disturbed about the way topics are handled in the book, ie dancing, contemporary Christian music, drinking, and other things.

    I cannot figure out from the ProTeens website what the organization is really like. Do any of you know about them?
     
    #1 JudyBan, Mar 3, 2005
  2. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    My youth group used ProTeens for several years. I don't really know where the group stands .. . it was wishy washy and hard to tell.

    Over all I was disappointed because it was boring and it talked down to us--most of us knew the stuff being taught. We needed material that was deeper with more meat for us to grow on.

    Also, the material is notorious, I think, for poor writing and other unprofessional things in layout and stuff . . . but that's me. Picky about books. [​IMG]
     
    #2 MargoWriter, Mar 3, 2005
  3. JudyBan

    JudyBan New Member

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    Margo,
    Thanks for your response. I would say that I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph.

    My daughter has also commented on it being boring. I think it is interesting that you say that the material wasn't very deep. The ProTeens supposedly advertise that this is material to produce pastors, missionaries, etc. and is a serious, no nonsense program. I guess I would like to see something a little meatier--if that is their intended goal.
     
    #3 JudyBan, Mar 4, 2005
  4. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    I have never used Pro-teens myself, but I have some friends, one of whom is a excellent youth pastor, who have. From what I understand it is a God-focused program rather than the even driven youth programs of most churches. If a teens believe it is boring perhaps it is because they are not interested in living God-centered lives. Please don't understand my comments as an acusation of your children. Also I recognize that my understanding of pro-teens is second hand so it may not reflect an accurate knowledge of the material.
     
    #4 4His_glory, Mar 4, 2005
  5. Linscott

    Linscott New Member

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    I'm interested: what was the problem in how these issues were handled, from your perspective?

    I haven't done the study you refer to, but we did do a number of PAFC studies when we were in youth work. My King and My God was a rich doctrinal study on Theology Proper for teens. I would highly recommend it.
     
    #5 Linscott, Mar 4, 2005
  6. JudyBan

    JudyBan New Member

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    There are many places in the book where IMO the author tries to find a verse to fit his point...instead of working from the other direction.

    So, for instance, in the case of alcohol, he cites Hab. 2:15 and says that "There is a curse of God on everyone who sells or handles liquor, every hostess who serves liquor, and every man who buys a friend a drink."

    Yet, Hab. 2:15 says "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, that puttest thy bottle to him and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!" Well, it sounds like that verse is referring to people who are getting others drunk for the express purpose of taking advantage of them. Some of our parents are concerned because they have been waiters or waitresses in the past and because of their jobs served alcohol...others have been cashiers in grocery stores and have "handled liquor." According to Frank Hamrick these people are under a curse. Is this not a stretch from what that verse is saying?

    Another issue is contemporary Christian music. Understand, I am NOT defending CCM--don't even listen to it. But to me, his arguments are unbiblical.

    First let me say that I believe the Bible has plenty to say that would offer direction in choosing music. I think you could just take Phil.4:8 as a good measuring stick for listening to music.

    This book focuses on rhythm and such. The Bible does not teach that music which emphasize the 2nd and 4th beats as being sinful. (BTW "Jesus Loves Me" emphasizes the 2nd and 4th beats.) I think it is unbiblical to teach thus. Perhaps Hamrick is taking his personal convictions and imposing them as Biblical standards.

    These are just a couple things...I have a LOT of questions about this book. Many other parents do to. And one of my questions is "Is this typical of all ProTeens stuff or is this book and aberration?"

    The teens at our church have for years been a very responsive group. The bar is set really high for them. For example, this year, one of their requirements is to memorize all of Ephesians. These teens respond enthusiastically and give much time to ministry. The fact that they are calling this boring--and some have called it offensive--is raising eyebrows.
     
    #6 JudyBan, Mar 4, 2005
  7. PastorGreg

    PastorGreg Member
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    I used ProTeens for several years as a youth pastor, and in fact taught the Holy War. I'm sure it has been revised since then (1926 :D ), but when I taught it, I thought overall it was excellent. Any material that is boring (or interesting) is usually made so by the one doing the teaching. The leadership of any church should have the discernment to take this, or any other program and "spit out the bones."
     
    #7 PastorGreg, Mar 4, 2005
  8. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    True, Pastor G.

    But I'd like to see some better materials written. Same with RGB sunday school materials.

    It may cut the standard--but lets raise our standards. [​IMG] There are so many godly pastors and teachers out there who could write better material and I wish they would.

    The emphasis on Bible memory is good in Proteens. I agree with that. I learend many, many verses that way--it was my favorite part.
     
    #8 MargoWriter, Mar 4, 2005
  9. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Jesus loves me does NOT emphasize the 2nd and 4th beats . . .

    (1)`Je-(2)sus (3) `loves (4) me

    (1) `this (2) `I (3) `know


    There's an exception in part of it--emphasis on beats 1,2 and 3 in the second half of that line.

    Sing it with the emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beats and you'll prob get kicked out of SS for being a smart aleck.

    (JeSUS loves ME, this I know,
    For THE biBLE tells ME so.)

    But I do agree with what you said, Judy, about using verses to support our music standards.
     
    #9 MargoWriter, Mar 4, 2005
  10. JudyBan

    JudyBan New Member

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    Margo,

    Okay...so music is not really my thing. Our music pastor actually taught that lesson. He's the one who used Jesus Loved Me as an example. hmmm....maybe he doesn't know his music so well? I wonder why he would have used that as an example.

    But it was interesting because the book defines rock music by having 3 things: high intensity (which it defines as LOUD), simple harmony, and the emphasis on the 2nd and 4th beats. The music minister used Jesus Loves Me as an example of the 2-4 beat. One of the teens offered, "Well, it's a simple harmony. If you play it really loud, does that make it rock?" But hey, I feel better now, because you cleared it up for me. It's not a 2nd and 4th beat song. So, whew!!! It's not rock after all.
     
    #10 JudyBan, Mar 4, 2005
  11. MargoWriter

    MargoWriter New Member

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    Hey, no problem. The reason I know is because I learned about feet (heh heh, love that term) in poetry writing . .. have had some training there--less on the music, more on the poetry.

    You might want to have your music pastor look into because I'd hate to have him discount his own argument by using a faulty example.

    Here's my bottom line:
    There is music appropriate for church just as there is clothing, discussion, and demeanor appropriate for church. I don't think CCM is appropriate for church regardless of anyone's decision to listen to it or not listen to it.
     
    #11 MargoWriter, Mar 4, 2005
  12. aefting

    aefting New Member

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    Proteens uses several different authors, so you will get some good, some bad, and some so-so. My biggest complaint is that many times their lesson points did not come from the Biblical text but from the author's imagination. It's not that the points were wrong but that they did not come directly from the text. I am not leading the teens at my church anymore, so I don't have their materials handy to provide a concrete example.

    In the end, I just created my own material/lessons -- but that takes more time than most non-fulltime people are willing to or can spend.

    Andy
     
    #12 aefting, Mar 7, 2005
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Good stuff and highly recommended. Their conferences are great, too.

    They appeal to all spectra of fundamentalism - from the looney hyles types to the MacArthur crowd. So, of course, some will condemn that!

    But from me? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #13 Dr. Bob, Mar 7, 2005
  14. dcorbett

    dcorbett Active Member
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    My son-in-law uses the Pro Teen program - and it has been a wonderful success, lots of "on the edge" teens have come to know Christ as Saviour.

    The group started with 4 teens, and now is consistently at or approx 45 teens.

    We are an independent fundamental KJVO church.

    Debbie
     
    #14 dcorbett, Mar 9, 2005
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Sounds like a GREAT teen discipleship program! [​IMG]
     
    #15 Aaron, Mar 9, 2005
  16. JudyBan

    JudyBan New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, I THOUGHT that I don't listen to CCM. But I was just recently told that in fact, I do. Most of our CDs are classical music and piano music. But we do have Keith Green and Steve Green. I plan to ask my pastor about these artists. Evidently, he is saying these are forbidden. I'm stunned.

    BTW, I'm not sure I understand your logic, Aaron. Are you saying that if I don't do something, I shouldn't defend it? You know, I have never in my recollection, stood on a corner and given any sort of political speech. Yet, should I not defend the right to free speech? What about drinking? Just because I don't drink, can I not defend the fact that alcohol is not prohibited in scripture?
     
    #16 JudyBan, Mar 9, 2005
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