is Roman catholism Regarded as a Cult/False Gospel/ Gospel + Works/True Gospel?

Well said! The Catholic theologians are like the Pharisees of Christ's day - they interpret the scriptures by the traditions of the fathers and redefine everything to suit their vain traditions. The are a cult in every sense of the term.

 

Matt, what we have here is the ever present circle of mischief......attack RC's, attack Calvinists, attack other denoms not in keeping with Baptists, go back to RC's.

 

The gospel is very simple! It is all about what Christ did for sinners not about what sinners do for Christ. Justification is through faith in the gospel not faithfulness to the gospel. Good works are the consequences of regeneration/justifcation/conversion not the means to obtain regeneration/justification/conversion. Regeneration/justification/conversion obtain the gift of heaven whereas works obtain present blessings and rewards in heaven. Very simple. Either you believe it or you do not - very simple. Those who believe it are going to heaven and those who don't are not going to heaven - it is just that simple.

 

One of the characteristics of a cult is that its members do not have freedom of conscience ie they are not free to disagree with their leadership. That certainly does not characterise the RCs I know (some of whom are even priests), who freely disagree with many of the pronouncements of the Vatican (eg: on women priests, contraception, homosexuality, etc). For example, my son goes to a Catholic school. One of the schoolyard dads is a good friend of mine and a devout Catholic. He's had a vasectomy and thinks the Pope has quite simply got it wrong on this issue.He states that quite openly and his priest knows about this yet is quite happy to offer him communion and treat him in all other respects as a full-fledged member of the Catholic community in his parish.

So, not a cult in my view.

 

Thanks Mark for proving my point.:laugh:

 

Or, put into its logical sequence...

10 Attack RC's
20 Attack Calvinists
30 Attack other denoms not in keeping with Baptists
40 Goto Line 10

What we have here is an infinite loop!

WM

 

Even the demons believe and shudder.
Hmmm..

WM

 

Could we learn not to bash & drag thru the mud? Ive become so disturbed by this kind of nonsense that it's not worth the time to come in here anymore.

 

What ever happened to the Christian virtues of Faith, Hope, and Charity?

WM

 

I'm familiar with them. But I'm talking about the acts described in the Bible consistent with worship and prayer, which are reserved for God alone.

 

They are not different. I don't pray to my parents...do you? Do you bow down to statues of them?

 

According to what I know about the RC, they regard prayer as making a request; thus it is different from worship, which they rightly declare as reserved for God alone. I take them at their word on this and will allow God to decern the intent of their hearts.

WM

 

Like as already been mentioned...redefining terms:

1prayer

noun, often attributive \ˈprer\
Definition of PRAYER

1
a (1) : an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought <said a prayer for the success of the voyage> (2) : a set order of words used in praying b : an earnest request or wish

2
: the act or practice of praying to God or a god <kneeling in prayer>

3
: a religious service consisting chiefly of prayers —often used in plural

4
: something prayed for

5
: a slight chance <haven't got a prayer>

If you pray to anyone other than God...it is a cult, period.

 

Have you never asked your parents for anything, "pray tell"? Hmmm...

Again ... look at the history of the words "prayer" and "worship" as they were never (until recently) synonomous. Bowing and prayer aren't they same either - just ask our President.

I often kneel with my bible open in front of me. Am I kneeling down to the bible? No - I am kneeling down to God. It's all about intent and neither you nor I know the heart of another. That is also reserved for God alone.

WM

 

Notice that your own source cites more than one intention/use for the word "pray". You really have a limited understanding of history there webdog.

WM

 

Are you serious? :laugh: I've also said "what's up" to my dad without having any desire to know what was above him. I've never used that phrase with my parents or anyone, btw.

I gave the Webster's definition of prayer. That combined with how it is defined in Scripture is enough for me.

Do you have any idea what goes on in the Catholic church? My wife is a former RC and her entire family is still to this day. They are not bowing before the statue innocently...they are praying to the graven image...specifically what we are told NOT to do in Scripture! The intent is worship! Do you know what Pope John Paul had engraved on his coffin?

 

...and which one of those definitions supports prayer to humans exactly? Do you not understand the primary (#1) use of the word? My understanding is limited...to truth.

 

Let's see...does this just sound like something "honoring" another human?

“Queen of peace, pray for us!
. . . Our gaze is directed toward you in great fear, to you do we turn with ever-more insistent faith in these times marked by many uncertainties and fears for the present and future of our planet. Together we lift our confident and sorrowful petition to you, the first fruit of humanity redeemed by Christ, finally freed from the slavery of evil and sin: hear the cry of the pain of victims of war and so many forms of violence that bloody the earth. Clear away the darkness of sorrow and worry, of hate and vengeance. Open up our minds and hearts to faith and forgiveness!”

 

How about me? I have two grad degrees in history, taught history at the high school and college levels for years, and currently teach church history.

Why don't you go ahead and take a swing at me, Mr. Bigshot

 

Do you mean have I ever ascribed supernatural authority to them and the ability to perform supernatural acts in the physical world, like Catholics do with Mary, Michael the Archangel, and dozens of dead saints?

Hey, Westminster. Since your name is "Westminster", let's take a look at what your namesake has to say about the subject of prayer, shall we?

Which one of these do you believe allows prayer to Mary, Michael, or other dead saints?

Notice specifically the part where it says:

Prayer is part of religious worship and God is the only object of religious worship - Matthew 4:10
God is the only one who is omnipresent and able to see His people and hear their prayers - Psalm 34:15
Only God can answer our prayers by fulfilling our desires and giving those things we need and pray for - Psalm 145:18-19