Is Ron Paul a Real Libertarian?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ps104_33, Jul 10, 2007.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    FRom Dinesh D'Sousa's blog:





    "This past weekend I debated Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul on the war in Iraq. The event was FreedomFest, the annual libertarian gathering in Las Vegas, with C-Span and about a thousand people in attendance. It was billed as a Libertarian v. Conservative debate: Larry Abraham and Dinesh D'Souza for the conservative side, and Doug Casey and Ron Paul for the libertarian side.
    But I'm beginning to wonder whether the libertarians should find a new name for themselves. Both Casey and Paul condemned the Iraq war and American foreign policy in the name of "non-interventionism." Their point was that America should look out for itself and not behave like the world's policeman. Foreign policy should be based on self-interest and not philanthropy. Let's not go meddling in other people's affairs. There is a lot of prudential good sense in these arguments.
    The problem is that these libertarians have forgotten the core principle of libertarianism, which is liberty. Other ideas, such as noninterventionism, should be subordinate to that. Now if you believe in liberty, as the American founders did, then you hold it as a universal principle. Jefferson didn't say "all Americans" are created equal and have inalienable rights, he said "all men."
    So here is question for Ron Paul: shouldn't the United States do what it can to promote liberty worldwide? I posed this question and Paul answered that America should be an example of liberty and not try to impose freedom by force. Alas, where freedom has come to countries it has usually come by force. How did we get freedom in this country? We had a revolution. How did African Americans win freedom? It took the invasion of a Northern army to secure for the slaves a freedom they were not in a position to secure for themselves. And let's remember that America imposed freedom at the point of a bayonet on Japan and Germany after World War II, and the results have been excellent.
    It seems that today's libertarians are divided into two camps: the principled and the unprincpled. The former believe in liberty as a universal aspiration. The latter believe in freedom for us but not for anyone else. Ron Paul isn't going to become president, but as America's leading libertarian he would do the group a service by upholding freedom as a universal principle, as the founders did."

    http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/07/10/is-ron-paul-a-real-libertarian/#cont
     
  2. Rufus_1611

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    Thomas Jefferson was president from 1801-1809. During that time, how many foreign nations with despots did he invade, regime change, occupy and rebuild in the name of universal liberty?
     
  3. TomVols

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    Is Ron Paul really the nation's leading liberterian?
     
  4. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    It is a good thing that the french did not believe in "noninterventionism" when we needed help. Old ronnies selfcentered lets walk through the world with blinders on is the hight of ignorance.
     
  5. JGrubbs

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    Sounds like he has been indoctrinated well, and has no real understanding of American history or the Constitutional Republic that our founding fathers put in place.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    JGrubbs,

    Will you explain why it was okay for the US invaded a sovereign country to free people under tyranny?
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
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    Whom do you think is a more prominent libertarian currently?
     
  8. TomVols

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    Well, Mr. Paul is a Republican. So isn't he then not a prominent Libertarian? Maybe he is the most prominent with a small "L" (debatable).

    I ask not to be demeaning...just curious.
     
  9. KenH

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    All libertarians are not members of the Libertarian Party - of which I am a member. For instance, the Republican Liberty Caucus supports Republican Party candidates - www.rlc.org.

    Okay, so whom would you think is arguably a possibly more prominent small "l" libertarian?
     
    #9 KenH, Jul 10, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2007
  10. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    However you classify Ron Paul, he stands head and shoulders above Giuliani, McCain, and Romney.
     
  11. saturneptune

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    There are all sorts of individuals who believe we should invade countries for liberation, that it is our divine duty. Those who constantly flap their jaws about it are those who 90% of the time never served, and 99% of the time never fought. It is like "wave a flag, sing "God Bless America" with no sacrifice.

    There are times in history when we should have done what we did. Those who have been there choose their words very carefully, as this is not some giant video game.
     
  12. KenH

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    Yes, saturneptune, and it's a pity that people have called for people to run for president in the two major parties who will be straight shooters with them and then when we finally have such a candidate in Ron Paul these same people try to tear him down. They are like people who could be eating filet mignon and instead choose to keep eating dung.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    A very accurate discription of the three leading Republicans. (as well as all Democrats).
     
  14. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    #14 Baptist in Richmond, Jul 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2007
  15. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    I'll give Ron Paul this much...if I were to lose my mind and vote for a Repub, it would be him. Still, as Geo. Stephanopoulous told him, he has no chance of winning the Presidency.
     
  16. KenH

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  17. TomVols

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    Well, I don't know. My purpose in asking that about Paul was not so I could offer a list of people that I felt were. There might be some media types that have more influence (good or bad) like Cunningham, Boortz. J.D. Hayworth is, to me, on that list. An academic like Sowell would probably be on that list (his Basic Economics should be required reading). I'm not saying Paul isn't that man. But let's face it: if he doesn't tee up for Rudy in the debate, people still don't know who Ron Paul is.

    Thanks for the RLC link, btw.
     
    #17 TomVols, Jul 10, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2007
  18. KenH

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    Hey, Giuliani stepped right into a right cross in the debate and Ron Paul made the most of it. It's Giuliani's own fault that he ended up looking ignorant and poorly read on the subject of terrorism and that Ron Paul made mince meat out of him in that debate.

    Politics is all about taking advantage of the opportunities one is presented.
     
  19. TomVols

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    :laugh: You really think that's what happened? Come on, Ken.

    As I recall, Paul made the statement without any provocation from anyone. And the whole "Rudy is ignorant" is the favorite Paulite line. Maybe he is. But maybe he isn't. Assuming he is is just fallacy. I know Paul likes to put that out there because he has to.
     
  20. KenH

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    1) Yes. I was watching the debate when it happened.

    2) As I recall, Congressman Paul was answering a question from a moderator about the issue.

    3) Giuliani proved his ignorance to the whole nation that night when he said he had never, ever heard of the idea of blowback. I know what blowback is and my claim to fame is not "I am the president of 9/11" that Giuliani is pinning his presidential hopes on. If I am more knowledgeable than Giuliani do you really want him as your next president?
     

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