Is salvation available for anyone who desires it?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by reformedbeliever, Feb 20, 2006.

  1. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
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    It seems with so many taking scripture out of context, I'd ask this question. One of the scriptures that is taken out of context so often is John 3:16. With regeneration being the focus of the third chapter of John... the truth that God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life, is misused to represent universalism. If one would simply continue to read in context, they would see that "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. This points us right back to the beginning of the chapter which tells us that one must be born again. Even demons believe and fear and tremble.
    Again in 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. If we take a look at who Peter was addressing, we see that in the first letter he was addressing the elect ( 1 Peter 1:1-2). So many would say that God would not have any individual of all time be lost... again universalism. If we see that Peter was addressing the elect and understand that the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4), we would understand that He would not come back until all the elect are born and respond to the gospel. Certainly God has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, but He will see that they spend eternity separate of Him.
    Did the rich young ruler, who came to Jesus wanting salvation, get what he wanted? (Matt 19:16-26) No.
    Matt. 7: 21. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
    22. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
    23. "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Do you think that those who say "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles", wanted to be saved? Don't you think that they were in church every time the door was open? They wanted to be saved. Why weren't they? Because He said "depart from me for I never knew you". He knows His sheep and calls them by name. (John 10)
    I think that what is wrong with the church today is that there are so many who profess to be followers of Christ, but fail to follow Him. So many want salvation, but for the wrong selfish reasons. I just wish that people who claim Jesus as Savior could understand that God is able to accomplish all His will. He is not some weak God who sits in heaven saying, "oh how I wish I could save that one". We serve a mighty God. Once we recognize the sovereign God of all creation, and start to preach and teach exactly what the scriptures say He is, we will start accomplishing all He desires for us to accomplish. What a privilege it is to be a tool of such a God!
     
  2. Rippon

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    You are right on target RB . Amen !
     
  3. DeadMan

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    You are correct, sir.
     
  4. bapmom

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    1Jo 2:1
    ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    1. MHCC SME
    1Jo 2:2
    And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

    This would seem to indicate that Jesus did not just die for those who are saved, "but also for the sins of the whole world."
     
  5. Me4Him

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    AMEN.
    But WHY arent they saved, God' will or Man's will, the answer is right there in front of you.

    and men loved the darkness rather than the Light,

    How can the "Elect Perish", or do you suppose it's the "unelect" he's not willing to perish??

    A "very confused" interpretation.

    Do you know the difference between "FORCING" (predestine) someone to do something and just "knowing" (Foreknowledge) what they will do of their own "FREE WILL"???

    Does God "FORCE" them to do his will, or do they have a "CHOICE", and why this "WARNING" to man???

    Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    But calvin said, "NO MAN" will attempt to "come to God" except the Spirit calls him, so why do these attempt to come to God without being saved???

    God "LOVE/WILL/PLAN" was that none perish, so why isn't that being preached instead of this "Ignorance" that it wasn't,

    as you said, not many are "following" the teaching of the "SPIRIT" today, but a "way that seemeth right unto "MAN".
     
  6. reformedbeliever

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    Ok Bapmom. So if you believe that His death acquired salvation for the "whole world" as in every individual who ever existed or will exist, then you believe in universalism. The word "whole world" in this case means all races of men.
    MeForHim, i'll be glad to answer everyone of your questions... one at a time and please take the time to be precise in your questions.
     
  7. tinytim

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    The desire to come to Christ is there because of a call from Christ.
     
  8. SeekingTruth

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    Tim, I would say that the call comes from the Godhead, The Father. (John 6:44). The Son then receives all who are drawn to Him.
     
  9. Timtoolman

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    Aaaaagh, just more thumb sucking theology!
     
  10. SeekingTruth

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    Timtoolman, Your point :eek: :confused: :confused:
     
  11. Me4Him

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    Jesus made it "possible" for an many as were made sinners/condemned by Adam to be "redeemed/Justified" by Jesus,

    ...IF...they would believe.

    "Belief/Unbelief" of individuals is the only separation of the saved/lost,

    God's no respecter of persons in his offer of salvation to "ALL", Jesus died for "All sins".

    IF a person will believe, God will "grant his grace/salvation",

    IF they refuse to believe, no grace/salvation.

    Plain and simple.
     
  12. webdog

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    RB, welcome to the BB! [​IMG]

    Unfortunately, this is a strawman. Bapmom never claimed Jesus "acquired salvation for the whole world", hence universalism. Jesus is the atonement, propitiation, payment for the sins of the whole world. I can pay for your dinner and still not force you to eat it.
     
  13. reformedbeliever

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    Thank you webdog. Actually I've been here quite a while... just don't post much. So Jesus paid the price for those who will never receive Him? I suppose the sins of the reprobate will be paid twice then.... once by Jesus and once for eternity for themselves. Seems like double jeopardy to me. So me4him... Grace is dependent upon men's works? I don't think so. It is unmerited favor. Timtoolman... you'll finally get through the thumbsucking phase.
     
  14. Timtoolman

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    Yes, whew.....trying to pull you out of it now! :cool:
     
  15. webdog

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    Sorry, I didn't look at when you joined ('04) but by how many posts you had.

    People go to hell because they do not have faith in Jesus Christ. Man is on his way to hell already. Only faith in Christ will appease the wrath of God, since those "in Christ" have been crucified in Him already. We either pay the fine on our own, or we accept Christ's payment, and are crucified in Him...no double jeopardy.
     
  16. reformedbeliever

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    Webdog. You said "We either pay the fine on our own". IF you do not receive Christ then He has already paid for your sins.... why would you have to "pay the fine on your own"?
     
  17. Me4Him

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    Don't take this the wrong way, but are you joking or really that ignorant of the plan of salvation????

    Jesus's death only applies to those who believe, but in dying for the sins of the whole world he made it possible for the whole world to be saved.

    There's no such thing as "Double payment", Jesus offered to "Redeem" the debt of sin for the whole world, IF they accept/acknowledge his payment, if not, the debt is still owed.
     
  18. reformedbeliever

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    Me4him... I won't give you the credit of an answer for the first question. Jesus'death accomplished salvation for all who are His. It is finished, done for and complete for the elect. His grace doesn't depend on anything they do. But then again judging from your responses to the other threads concerning sovereign grace...it doesn't surprise me that you can't see it.
     
  19. reformedbeliever

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    There has been enough debate on Calvinism and Arminianism. My question in this thread "Is salvation available for anyone who desires it? How about addressing the question?
     
  20. whatever

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    Yes, there is. Now if we could find someone who desires it. "Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die". Everybody wants salvation, but not at the cost of their sin. Something's got to change that.
     

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