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Is scripture true, or does it contradict?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ituttut, Dec 8, 2010.

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Yes, I see! You can't see the whole counsel of God. Acts 11:18 stands. Repentance unto life for both Jew and Gentile. Numbers 15:15 is passover acceptance for all. Not law. It is an OT allusion and picture of the Gospel of Grace, and in no way whatsoever does Passover mean Law. It points to Christ and Him alone.

    I'll leave you to your error, you will never see it and are bound by some refusal to see it. No further discussion needed.
     
    #41 preacher4truth, Dec 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2010
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I continue to struggle with the point you are attempting to make.

    You have repeatedly stated that the Jews are justified " by faith", but that Christians are justified "through faith". You asked me to look at Hebrews 11 to prove your point, saying scripture never refers to the faith of O.T. Saints with the phrase "through faith" but always with the phrase "by faith".

    Hebrews 11, referring to O.T. Saints, repeatedly uses the phrase "by faith" when referring to the O.T. Saints until v. 39, when it says "through their faith".

    Now you have apparently changed your argument to say that Gentiles are saved "through the faith of Jesus Christ", but that Jews are saved through their own faith (plus works as you stated earlier) instead of the "by faith" argument you have been using.

    I am honestly attempting to understand what you are saying and study scripture to see if it supports what you are saying.

    I notice, however, that you are beginning to insult me on a regular basis, first stating that I'm not interested in scripture, and now saying that I "wish" saving faith to be something other than what you see in scripture, insinuating you know that my motives are something other than simply trying with humility to understand God's Word.

    Therefore, I leave you and this discussion, but sincerely wish...

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #42 canadyjd, Dec 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2010
  3. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78 New Member

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    Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Jesus said blessed are them that have not seen but still believe. Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Seek and ye shall find. knock and the door shall be open. For he that seeks shall find. There is work but that will not save you or it does not save you:Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. The gift of God is Jesus Christ. A gift does not cost anything it is free. But God commands us all to repent and come to the knowledge of the truth! The truth is in Jesus Christ.
     
    #43 charles_creech78, Dec 27, 2010
  4. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    You are right, and we see how the Gentile receives that repentance in Acts 10, and later Peter understands it all, and says the Jew can now be saved just like the Gentile. They can move from the Old to the New
    For you edification, I with love put scripture before you. Please read it. Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord.
    16. One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you."

    To be as they one must be circumcised, make blood sacrifices, and live under the Law of Moses. This is scripture, and how the "stinger (heathen) was justified in that day. They had to come to God just as the Jew. Today it is just the opposite, that is If We Believe His Word.
    Thank you preacher for the Tête-à-tête. I pray that you may grow in Christ Jesus who shed His blood for both Jew, and Gentile.
     
    #44 ituttut, Dec 30, 2010
  5. luke1616

    luke1616 New Member

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    Abraham, took his son to the altar obeying God. He fully trusted God in this act. This is a work of faith. Faith is the substance of things not seen. Abraham played this out, his son was spared. If he failed, it would not be a work of faith.
    Anyone can say they have faith.
    When it is put to the test in your life and does not fail, this is called faith with works, or walking in faith.
    If faith is never tested in your life or if you fail, it is called faith without works, or talking about faith.
    When you complete each test of faith, it grows and the next test is tougher, faith to faith.
    If your faith is dormant and it is all talk or confession only, you have very little faith.
     
    #45 luke1616, Dec 30, 2010
  6. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    No one has ever been justified by the Law. There is no coming to God by the law, ever. :)

    All who were ever justified were justified by faith. It's always been this way.

    Keep reading.
     
    #46 preacher4truth, Dec 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2010
  7. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    From what you write below, I can see why you struggle with scripture. This is not my idea; it is scripture that you just cannot bring yourself to believe. Romans 3:30, "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith." I keep repeating this in order that some may see how they are justified Today.
    Regret I am not able to make myself more clear, but I do believe scripture is clear. I have not changed. I have tried to show that those in the OT could not come through faith the faith of Jesus Christ. Why? Because the Blood had not yet been applied to them. Did Moses have access to His Blood, or did Moses have to make blood sacrifices, as an individual, and then the High Priest go into the Holy of Holies once a year to cover the sins of God's people, and any proselytes?

    How could they come Through His Blood when it had not been applied in those days? And how could they believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved forever when they didn't know His Name. Did God tell Moses His Name? "I Am That I Am" was the answer Moses got when he asked. The name of Jesus was a secret, or it would have been told Israel had He wished them to know His Name.
    Me too.
     
    #47 ituttut, Dec 31, 2010
  8. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Amen to all. We turn to Him, who has already forgiven us.
     
    #48 ituttut, Dec 31, 2010
  9. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78 New Member

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    Its contradict because man reads the scripture wrong. Man reads it in nature and not the way God wanted us to read it. He wants us to read it in the spirit and learn it in the spirit. Jesus said these words that I say unto you are spiritual and they are life. Jesus words are in the bible? They also say it contradict it self. Why because they do not rightly divide the word of truth. It is the truth thats way they say it contradicts. Heaven and earth shall pass away but my word shall not. God bless!
     
    #49 charles_creech78, Jan 4, 2011
  10. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    In other words you seem to be saying we must do a work in faith to be saved, or to continue to be saved?

    I believe that Jesus Christ did all of the work, and if I try to take credit for the work that He did for me, then is it of Grace or of works of our own as you imply? Are we not saved By Grace, Through the faith of Jesus Christ? This is the Gift that God gives us, if we will only take it, and not try to say it is Our Faith, With Our Works that we are saved.
     
    #50 ituttut, Jan 6, 2011
  11. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    It would help if you read, and understood my posts. Where do find in anything I have written that I am of WORKS? Try to understand what I am saying. Until sometime after Pentecost, they were still doing works, as we can see in Acts. And before that ALL had to do a WORK, before the Law, and after the Law was given. Not until Grace THROUGH faith became known, and understood by man, did the WORKS CEASE.
     
    #51 ituttut, Jan 6, 2011
  12. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    And God bless you. Have you heard! The last words on our salvation today came from Christ Jesus in heaven. And they were given to a man named Saul/Paul.

    We should think seriously of seeing what Christ Jesus revealed to him. Peter says we should, according to the wisdom given to Paul.
     
    #52 ituttut, Jan 6, 2011
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Let the record show Sola Saint and I agree on the understanding of this scripture. My being a Non Cal agreeing with a Calvinist on anything is rare.
    Well said Sola Saint.
    MB
     
    #53 MB, Jan 6, 2011
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