is Sin an action or a substance

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jordan Kurecki, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    Is Sin is an Action, or is it a substance that is transmitted through human flesh?

    What say ye?
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    It is a condition of the IMMATERIAL aspect of human nature as the human nature is not all physical, material in nature. Man is more than a physical substance.

    We are sinners by nature, by choice, and by actions.
     
  3. webdog

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    That was The Biblicist answer. Let's see what the Bible's answer is...

    "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness."

    I'll rest on that one instead :)
     
  4. InTheLight

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    It's an action. If it were a substance passed down through human flesh, how could the angels have sinned?

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

    Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    "Have sinned" is clearly an action.

    Just search an online Bible for the phrase "have sinned" and see how many hits you get.
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    Do you really believe that breaking the law is only done by actions? What about attitudes? What about thoughts that never become actions? Your limited definition repudiates Christ's definition of adultery and murder? What about evil thoughts in the heart (Mt. 15)??? Do you really believe there is no more than one Biblical definition of what sin is other than actions?????? Does not the Scripture say that the heart "IS" desperately evil and that evil thoughts proceed from the heart long before they are manifested by actions???
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Oct 28, 2014
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  6. Van

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    Why not do a word study of all the Greek words translated as sin, before we pontificate on what sin is.
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    Better than Jesus heh? Here is what Jesus said was sin and it was not an action:

    Mt. 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    Mt. 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
    19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:


    Sin is the condition/state of the heart BEFORE it ever becomes an action of the body. The heart IS desperately wicked. Now, think about this before you answer to hastily!
     
  8. InTheLight

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    The choices given in the OP were:

    action

    or

    substance

    I answered the question according to the parameters of the OP.
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    That is a good starting place, but certainly is not exhaustive of what sin is as there are clearly stated unambigous declarations that also define sin to be the condition or state of the fallen human heart. Jesus said the look of lust commits adultery "already in his heart." Is that sin? It certainly is not an material action. Jesus said that "evil thoughts" proceed from the heart as well as all other evil. Can "thoughts" be regarded as "evil" or sin unmaterilized by actions?
     
  10. webdog

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    All distinctions without a difference requiring volition and conscience action.
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    You are missing the point! Volition and conscience are not MATERIALISTIC but IMMATERIAL actions of spirit/soul. Notice the OP question.

    Is Sin is an Action, or is it a substance that is transmitted through human flesh?

    The implication is that a sin nature cannot be passed down Adam to his posterity "through human flesh" as though the human nature is restricted to "flesh." However, the human nature passed down is far more than mere materialistic "flesh" as there is no such thing as a totally materialistic human nature.

    Hence, the fact that sin is the condition of the heart, which is by nature not "flesh" not MATERIALISTIC proves that sin cannot be restricted by definition to either to material "flesh" or actions by the flesh.


    So webdog, is sin restricted to material flesh or actions by material flesh??? Is Jesus wrong? Jesus defined "thoughts" to be evil and defined the "heart" as the origin of evil NOT THE MATERIALIST FLESH or MERELY the consequential actions by the materialistic flesh!!
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Oct 28, 2014
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  12. convicted1

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    Sin is a condition of fallen man, a condition passed down from Adam. Sin stems from a heart condition. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked(Jer. 17:9). The tree is known by it's fruit.
     
  13. webdog

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    I posted a Scripture emphatically stating what sin is, and you post doctrine with a verse giving the platform for sin.
     
  14. webdog

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    This is a strawman and question begging all in one. An action isn't an either / or proposition concerning whether it is materialistic vs. immaterialistic. A thought is an action. An impure thought is breaking God's law. It is lawlessness, hence it is sin. That's what the Bible says, not me.
     
  15. Alcott

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    It must be a substance, as if it were sold in drug stores only by someone licensed to dispense it. Consider some of the stories in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, about sin's "anti-matter," indulgences, and the conclusion might lead to that.
     
  16. InTheLight

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    Waiting for an answer on this:

    If sin were a substance passed down through human flesh, how could the angels have sinned?

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
     
  17. kyredneck

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    Sin is an attitude.
     
  18. The Biblicist

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    Again, you are completely missing the point! A thought is not "flesh" or Materialistic. The human heart from which "evil thoughts" proceed is not a FLESH heart but immaterialistic aspect of human nature. A "evil thought" may be the action of an immaterial substance (heart) but only because the heart "IS" desperately wicked.

    No one is denying that sin can be an action. However, the source of actions is IMMATERIAL in substance - the heart and the heart of fallen mankind "IS" desperately wicked and "IS" is a STATE OF BEING verb. Evil thoughts proceed/originate from the heart because the heart "IS" evil, and that is precisely why those with evil hearts DO evil things.
     
    #18 The Biblicist, Oct 28, 2014
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  19. The Biblicist

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    Obviously "sin" cannot be restricted to material substance or mere actions by material substance. Sin describes the STATE or the CONDITION of heart.
     
  20. The Biblicist

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    There is no such thing as "action" without first something preexisting that action and producing that action. The Bible says it is the "heart" which produces "evil thoughts" which in turn produce external actions.

    The Bible says that the heart of fallen man "IS" desperatedly wicked, not merely CAN DO deperately wicked actions but "IS" and that is a STATE OF BEING VERB.

    The bible does not merely say man DOES sin but man IS a sinner and that is a STATE OF BEING or CONDITION, which explains why he DOES sin.
     

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