Is the Anti KJVO Movement making a difference?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ben W, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    It seems to me that the KJVO group have had a few free kicks with pushing their Gnostic agenda into different Baptist Churches. Yet it would appear that the KJVO doctrines have begun to attract the attention of different discernment ministries who are attempting to do something about it.

    Yet are these groups making a difference? Have we been able to defend the faith against KJVO'ism to the point that people know that it is wrong and there are cases of people turning away from it? Are there good books on the subject appearing in Christian bookstores and other resources being made available to let people know exactly what is going on?
     
  2. Terry_Herrington

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    I doubt that this movement has has much success. I certainly hope they are a miserable failure.

    Just check out the "baptist top 1000" or the "top 500 fundamental" sites and you will see that the KJVO churches are alive and well, especially in America, Praise God!
     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Ephesians 6:12-13 (HCSB):
    For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. 13 This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand.
     
  4. robycop3

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    Seems as if more people are taking a much-closer look at the KJVO myth and are not automatically embracing it as many did when the myth was first being spread.

    KJV usage hasn't really declined that much, which is good, since it IS a valid Bible version, but the idea that it's the ONLY valid English BV is slowly but surely dying out. people now have the means to find out the TRUTH for themselves more easily now.
     
  5. James_Newman

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    Just exactly what faith are you trying to defend from 'KJVOism'? What difference does it make if (according to you) there is no real difference between the KJV and any other (valid?) bible version? Are you defending the faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as the blood atonement for our sin? Or the faith in His imminent return? Or the faith that were all going to stand before Him and be judged for every idle word that came out of our mouths?? Exactly which article of faith is destroyed by the idea that God provided us with a perfect bible that we can hold in our hand?

    I think the faith you are defending is the misplaced faith in scholars to tell us what God REALLY said.
     
  6. James_Newman

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    Luke 18:8
    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
     
  7. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    It seems to me that the KJVO group have had a few free kicks with pushing their Gnostic agenda into different Baptist Churches. Yet it would appear that the KJVO doctrines have begun to attract the attention of different discernment ministries who are attempting to do something about it.
    --------------------------------------------------


    This statements, and belief, shows just how much you DO NOT KNOW what GNOSTICISM is, and because you do not, you are false accusing your bretheren/sisters of a very serious charge. I would think twice if I were you, before you make such false statements.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  8. Phillip

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    You are absolutly right Michelle, technically and gnostic belief is: "a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual things. . ." Web. Encylo Unabrid. Dict. of the Eng. Lang.

    This is not an "early Christian sect". So, technically he is wrong and you are right.

    However, the second half of the descriptions nails the KJVO movement on the head: "who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual things"

    Does THIS sound familiar, folks? How many times have we heard. "Well, God told me this.", or "I KNOW the KJV is the only correct English translation--word for word perfect". etc.

    So, Michelle, you are right---half-way!
     
  9. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Seems as if more people are taking a much-closer look at the KJVO myth and are not automatically embracing it as many did when the myth was first being spread.

    --------------------------------------------------


    This is also a very serious charge, and one that you have not given ONE IOTA of scriptural support for. IT also reflects how much you do not understand what you call the "KJVO" and thier belief and position. The reality and fact of this issue is that the mv's HAVE altered the words of God, and therefore you have falsely labeled those who warn you of it/them, as "King James Onlyists". The truth is that we REJECT them because God has warned against doing such a thing. We are only obeying our Lord and urging other to also.


    If anything, what you have said above, only shows the falling away that the Lord warned us would come prior to the antichrist, the son of perdition:

    2 Thessalonians 2

    1. Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2. That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    6. And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
    13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
    14. Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    15. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
    16. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
    17. Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  10. Phillip

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    Here we go again. I think the thread was to ask if there was any good material out there to keep the KJVO movement from infiltrating churches. Not to argue the KJVO point of view.

    But if you must, there is absolutely NO SCRIPTURE that supports the KJVO position, PERIOD.

    Then, another list of scriptures about how "wise men" are corrupt, etc. -- probably with the intention of saying that "we" are the evil wise-men, am I right, Michelle?
     
  11. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    You are absolutly right Michelle, technically and gnostic belief is: "a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual things. . ." Web. Encylo Unabrid. Dict. of the Eng. Lang.

    This is not an "early Christian sect". So, technically he is wrong and you are right.

    However, the second half of the descriptions nails the KJVO movement on the head: "who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual things"

    Does THIS sound familiar, folks? How many times have we heard. "Well, God told me this.", or "I KNOW the KJV is the only correct English translation--word for word perfect". etc.

    So, Michelle, you are right---half-way!
    --------------------------------------------------


    Like I said, you have no idea what gnosticism is if you believe this. Gnositicism is NOT FAITH, nor is it being CONVICTED and led by the HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH who leads us to ALL TRUTH.


    Hebrews 11

    1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    2. For by it the elders obtained a good report.
    3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
    5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
    6. But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    and.....


    5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    8. Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    9. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    10. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
    15. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
    16. Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
    17. That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
    18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
    19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
    20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
    21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
    22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
    23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


    and...


    John 16

    4. But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
    5. But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
    6. But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
    7. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    8. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9. Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10. Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11. Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    14. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    15. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


    You should look up what "gnosticism" really is before you defend such false claims against your brothers/sisters in Christ Jesus.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  12. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Here we go again. I think the thread was to ask if there was any good material out there to keep the KJVO movement from infiltrating churches. Not to argue the KJVO point of view.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Maybe I should then start a thread that asks how the modern versions (that have altered the words of God) have infiltrated the churches, and what it's affects because of this are, and what good sources are there out there to keep this from happening? Would you like the tables to be turned?


    Yes, here we go again. Those of us who come here to warn you all are being falsely labeled and accused, yet again and without ANY SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT to show that what we are warning of is what many of you are claiming it is - a myth and false doctrine, and gnostic. Do you not understand, that our belief in this COMES FROM THE SCRIPTURES? The argument my brother, is coming from you all, who are claiming something false about others.


    --------------------------------------------------
    But if you must, there is absolutely NO SCRIPTURE that supports the KJVO position, PERIOD.

    --------------------------------------------------


    There is an abundance of scriptural support for OUR BELIEF, and OUR REJECTION OF, and WARNING OTHERS OF the ALTERATIONS of the mv's that have been given. It might do you well, to UNDERSTAND our belief by our own words, rather than the words and false accusations/misunderstandings of those who have SLAPPED a FALSE LABEL onto the truth, in order to JUSTIFY their compromise with error.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. gb93433

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    The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism
    by D. A. Carson

    The mythologists don't like his documentation. I always lok for documentation when I look at a subject.

    I also look at the outcome of the movement in terms of fruit and who are the disciples.
     
  14. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Then, another list of scriptures about how "wise men" are corrupt, etc. -- probably with the intention of saying that "we" are the evil wise-men, am I right, Michelle?
    --------------------------------------------------


    Maybe, if you for ONCE really tried to understand what we have said, believe and shared, and what the scriptures reveal, you would understand. You are IGNORING these things, and coming to wrong and false conclusions, and as a result falsely accusing your bretheren and without any scriptural support. We are to reason one with the other with the scriptures - not our own minds and opinions.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  15. Phillip

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    It is a free country, I am certainly not going to stop you or even complain if you open a thread such as this. I cannot say what the moderators will do, because they are working at the request of the person who OWNS this board and thus has the right to post or limit posting however, he/she feels.

    But, I certainly have no problem if you want to start your thread.
     
  16. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    The mythologists don't like his documentation. I always lok for documentation when I look at a subject.
    --------------------------------------------------


    So you would rather look at a documentation of a man's opinions, rather than looking at the scriptures - the words of the Lord - as your sole authority concerning this issue?


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  17. Phillip

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    I have READ your scriptures in detail, Michelle, and I honestly (sorry, I honestly don't) don't see anything that supports the KJVO position. The KJV is one of many translations into many languages. Now, if you were to argue TR "preferred", then we might have common grounds, but NOTHING in the scriptures you have quoted, or that I have EVER read in the Bible points to ONE SINGLE ENGLISH translation.

    Maybe you should put some commentary after the verses that show your point so that our eyes might be opened.
     
  18. Phillip

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    Oh, by the way Michelle, I notice that you quote a lot of Epistles in your quotes about scripture. Do you realize that those epistles were mostly written before the gospels were and that Paul had to preach the gospel based on his knowledge of what happened?

    He did not have a book of John to carry in to the churches, at least not at the time he wrote it?

    Paul is always trying to make the people understand (and especially the Jews) that Jesus is their God. The scribes and pharisees and others would not accept anything beyond the God of Abraham. So, it became a false religion, although there was truth behind it. The same as Islam, its base is the God of Abraham, but it went all wrong from there and became a false religion.

    Only the acceptance of Jesus Christ, of which Paul was preaching to accept, was the accurate culmination of the scriptures.

    Although, it speaks to us today. . . this has nothing to do with an English translation written 1600 years later.
     
  19. michelle

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    --------------------------------------------------
    I have READ your scriptures in detail, Michelle, and I honestly (sorry, I honestly don't) don't see anything that supports the KJVO position. The KJV is one of many translations into many languages. Now, if you were to argue TR "preferred", then we might have common grounds, but NOTHING in the scriptures you have quoted, or that I have EVER read in the Bible points to ONE SINGLE ENGLISH translation.

    ---------------------------------------------------


    You honestly do not see it, because you IGNORE IT, and seem to not have any desire to truly understand. I would like to now see your scriptural support that God allows alterations to HIS WORDS OF TRUTH. I would like to see your scriptural suppport that God would not preserve HIS words of truth perfectly in a translation? I would like to see your scriptural support, that our belief in this is a myth and false doctrine. Not one of you have EVER provided such for these. The only thing I have seen to support your views on this is the opinions of men. As I have said, and have shown, that my BELIEF COMES FROM THE SCRIPTURES. This is why I share those scriptures with you.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  20. robycop3

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    Michelle:So you would rather look at a documentation of a man's opinions, rather than looking at the scriptures - the words of the Lord - as your sole authority concerning this issue?

    If I look at the SCRIPTURES as my sole authority for the versions issue, then I must totally reject the KJVO myth in its entirety. In fact, I do, and I DO.

    The Scriptures you posted apply equally to every valid BV in any language. Can you give us any reason why they WOULDN'T?


    As I have said, and have shown, that my BELIEF COMES FROM THE SCRIPTURES. This is why I share those scriptures with you.

    Then YOU should also reject the KJVO myth since it's clearly non-Scriptural.
     

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