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Is the Bible the Word of God?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jer2913, Jul 10, 2006.

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  1. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Hi!

    I was having a discussion with this guy not too long long about the Bible being the Word of God. He says he doesn't believe the Bible is the Word of God. He also said that the only time the Bible is refered more as the Word of God is when it comes to the Old Testament (so it could be more like the New Testament isn't the Word of God according to him). The reason he says this is because, in the New Testament the phrase they'll use when referring more to the Word of God is The Scriptures, and back then when they used that phrase it was meant for the Old Testament not the New.
    When he brought this up I couldn't really think of any passage in the New Testament that refute him, and when I tried to refute I probably made myself out to look like an idiot (plus it doesn't help that one of the things I lack in when it comes to this stuff is remembering where different passages are found in the Bible)?

    So I was wondering if anyone here might be able to help me give an answer.

    look forward to the replies!
    Jer2913
     
    #1 Jer2913, Jul 10, 2006
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Here is a discourse by Al Mohler on the inerrancy and sufficiency of Scripture where he briefly addresses this specific subject: Link

    Hope this helps.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #2 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2006
  3. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    Yes. ..............
     
    #3 genesis12, Jul 11, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    The word is Jesus; The Bible is the written word.
     
    #4 Brother Bob, Jul 11, 2006
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    1. The Bible is the word of God.
    2. Jesus is the Word of God. (see John 1)
    Identity
    • The Bible is the message of God, composed and transmitted through human agencies, that points to Jesus and explains the Kingdom.
    • Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one enters the Kingdom of God except through Him.
    Role
    • The Bible is the living word of God that points us to Christ and teaches us how to live in Him.
    • Jesus is the living Word of God that gives us life, personally interacts with us, and is the focus of faith.
    Important Points:
    1. Jesus and the Bible are not in conflict. Jesus will never lead you to do anything that the Bible truly teaches against (although Jesus will frequently lead you to do things that may upset folks with bad or incomplete theology).
    2. The life and teachings of Jesus, as recorded in the gospels, is the ultimate guide for the interpretation of all of scripture. For instance, all of Paul's writings must be interpreted in light of what Jesus taught, since Paul was a disciple of Jesus (and no student is greater than His master). Strangely enough, this is a very unpopular concept among Baptists because it undermines much of what goes on in "conservative" churches today. The teachings of Jesus and Paul are NOT in conflict, but many of the popular interpretations of Paul's writings may well be in conflict with the teachings of Jesus.
    3. The Bible must never been seen as an end in itself. Perfect intellectual belief in all of the teachings of scripture will not make you a disciple of Jesus nor bring salvation to your life. You must follow Jesus to enter into the Kingdom of God and experience new life in Christ.
     
    #5 Baptist Believer, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2006
  6. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    Yes, the Bible is the Word of God!

    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)
     
    #6 Linda64, Jul 11, 2006
  7. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    There are several places where Paul declares that what he is writing is "of God".

    We can also look back and see that the 1st century Christians considered the New Testament books to be Scripture as well. They quoted it as such in letters. We can actually reconstruct almost the entire NT just through quotes from 1st century Christians.
     
    #7 bapmom, Jul 11, 2006
  8. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    The Bible is God's voice on printed page!! It is God's word written down and is as holy as God is!! Every book of the Bible--every chapter of every book of the Bible--every verse of every chapter of every book of the Bible--every sentence of every verse of every chapter of every book---every word of every sentence of every verse of every chapter of every book of the Bible is God talking---and needs to be read as if the ink is still wet on the page!!!

    Bro. David
     
    #8 blackbird, Jul 11, 2006
  9. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Ok, here is how he also sees the Bible. He doesn't believe it is the Word of God.
    He believes it's principles are true but questions the rest. For instance, if it talks about somethin' in history, he does not neccesarily believe that that part of the Bible is true or more like, that is written by God.
    He was giving an example of some history in the Bible. It had to do with the Roman Empire (and possibly referring to a certain time period in the Roman empire) where it talks about some event I think that's in the Bible (sorry what he said about it was kinda confusing for me), and he was saying that so far there haven't been any documents to prove that it really happened in history, and so that part of the Bible could be false.

    He didn't have this opinion in the beginning, in the beginning he did believe that the Bible is the Word of God. What happened was, he went to a college called Baylor, and apparently some professors teach that the Bible isn't the Word of God. He said that when he first heard them teach that he was very upset with it, but apparently he read something that C.S. Lewis said about the early Christians and how they didn't have the Bible, and I think because of that they didn't base they're faith from the Bible or somethin' like that. Basically Baylor was teachin' it, and he didn't go for it til he read somethin' by C.S. Lewis that put it into a different light for him, and helped him to see their point of veiw, and now believes their point of view on the Bible.

    Well that's about it for now, sorry if this is confusing to you, what he said was a bit confusing for me, but you may know more about what he is talking about than I did/do.

    Well thanks for the help.
    Look forward to more replies!
    Jer2913

    P.S. Joseph_Botwinick, I listened to that link you sent me, and there was one thing I could understand. The guy said that the passage that referres to Scripture rebuking, teaching, correcting etc... he said that scripture in this passage was obviously meaning as well the NT as wel as the OT. I myself couldn't see how that could be clear. You mind explaining it me? Thanks! :)
     
    #9 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  10. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Ok, you guys say there are plenty of places that it proves that the NT or at least Paul's letters were written of God, but you guys don't seem to be giving me any really, do you mind giving me a few good references to look at, because I'm the one trying to show and prove this to him, so it doesn't help just to hear there are plenty, I need to know what they are so I can see, and show him.

    Not trying to be rude just letting ya know, thanks! :)

    Jer2913
     
    #10 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  11. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Ok, you guys say there are plenty of places that it proves that the NT or at least Paul's letters were written of God, but you guys don't seem to be giving me any really, do you mind giving me a few good references to look at, because I'm the one trying to show and prove this to him, so it doesn't help just to hear there are plenty, I need to know what they are so I can see, and show him.

    Not trying to be rude just letting ya know, thanks! :thumbs:

    Jer2913
     
    #11 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  12. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Ok, you guys say there are plenty of places that it proves that the NT or at least Paul's letters were written of God, but you guys don't seem to be giving me any really, do you mind giving me a few good references to look at, because I'm the one trying to show and prove this to him, so it doesn't help just to hear there are plenty, I need to know what they are so I can see, and show him.

    Not trying to be rude just letting ya know, thanks! :thumbs:

    Jer2913
     
    #12 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Hi Jer,

    I am sorry that your friend is going to school at the liberal bastion that is Baylor, and will be praying for God to deliver him from there.

    As to Al Mohler's comments, I think if you look at verses 14 and 15, you will have a clearer picture of his argument for the NT as Scripture within the context of verses 16-17:

    vv. 14-15

    In this portion of the passage, Paul tells us that Holy Scripture tells us about Salvation through Christ Jesus. You will not find this in the Old Testament without the New Testament and the writing of even Paul himself.

    Hope this helps.

    Joseph Botwinick:wavey:
     
    #13 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 11, 2006
  14. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    In the NT, the Word or Logos is a person.

     
    #14 Gold Dragon, Jul 11, 2006
  15. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Ok, I can understand what you mean about the Holy Scriptures being the NT because it refers to faith in Jesus, and that's what the New Testament is about. But doesn't the Old Testament talk about the future Messiah? When Jesus was on earth, wasn't that one of the reasons all those people in the graves (well that is their ghosts) came out, because they had believed during Old Testament time in the future Messiah that was to come, and some that allowed them to get into heaven? So doesn't that mean that that particular passage could still refer to the Old Testament Scriptures?
    Now you can correct me on this, this is just my understanding of what happened, I may have misunderstood.

    Jer2913
     
    #15 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Yes. The OT certainly prohecies the coming Messiah. We don't, however, know that it is Jesus until the NT.

    Hope this helps.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #16 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 11, 2006
  17. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Ok, I can understand that. Here's something else I'm thinking though. Is it possible to think that when Paul said this he was saying that it makes us "wise for salvation through Christ Jesus", in other words what the Old Testament was saying made it was unto us for salvation through Christ Jesus. Basically that what the Old Testament said prepared us to our minds or hearts to accept Jesus Christ as Messiah, even though we didn't know who He was specifically, the Old Testament gave us enough to go on to prepare us when He did come to recogize who He was, and accept Him.

    Sorry that I'm pushing this, I just tend to think this way, try to get as many possibilities cleared away as much as possible (at least everyway that "I" might be able to see possible).

    Jer2913
     
    #17 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Hi Jer,

    Certainly, The OT did prepare folks for the coming Messiah. He was not, however, fully revealed to man until the NT. IOW, we had no knowledge of Jesus until the NT clarified that for us. I also think the words "through faith in Christ Jesus" are important to this discussion.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #18 Joseph_Botwinick, Jul 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2006
  19. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    OK, I think I got it, thanks! :thumbs:

    But I do still encourage other Bible passages to bring up, and where they are found, just in case he wants more than one!:smilewinkgrin:

    thanks for the help!
    Jer2913
     
    #19 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
  20. Jer2913

    Jer2913 New Member

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    Well... yeah, I think I was including that in the discussion in my last post:
    etc...

    Jer2913
     
    #20 Jer2913, Jul 11, 2006
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