Is the law of Moses and the levitical law still valid for christians?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Aug 8, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Most christians say that the 10 commandments and the levitical law do not affect them anymore because they are not longer under the law. Is this correct? Does this mean that christians can do now whatever they want?
    Are gentiles even affected by the levitical law? Or was it only for jews?
    And does Jesus fulfilling the whole law mean that we as christians don't have to care about those rules anymore because Jesus fulfilled them? But christians still have to obey the 10 commandments, right? They cannot simply steal or lie. Then why do christians say they aren't under the law anymore? :confused:

    Please try to keep your answers short. :thumbsup:
     
  2. Not_hard_to_find

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    My goodness, but you do need some studies! There are commandments given by Jesus that Christians will continue to follow. Are you familiar with them?
     
  3. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH
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    yes, we are not under the old law, because if it were not faultless then there would have been to reason to seek a new one, which is based on better promises. it talks a lot about the change in covanent in Hebrews chapers 7-10. and when Christ came he didn't just take away the law and let everyone go free, he gave us his law, which a lot came from the old testament. like for example Jesus repeated everyone of the ten commandments in the new testament except one, remember the sabbath and keep it holy.

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
  4. Chris L.

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    xdisciplex,

    Are you asking all these questions as a Christian with a sincere heart in wanting to know the answers? Or are you just trying to make us question our faith and beliefs in order to drives us any from Christianity into a more "logical and rational" way of thinking? When others do attempt to answer you you always come back with "Ifs" "ands" or "what abouts". You seem to have a bit of an unteachable spirit in you.

    You have the right to ask questions and have your opinions of course, but I've noticed that all of your questions are the same types of things skeptics and humanists bring up all the time. This thread is for other denominations of Christians. It is not a debate thread for skeptics and unbelievers. If you really want to seek out the answers to some of these things, there are more knowledgeable and Godly men with many excellent websites dealing with apologetics and some of these things than many of us here at a discussion forum.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm new here and I don't really know you, but you may come off to some as a person masqurading as a Christian who might be attempting to deconvert real Christians. This is not an uncommon thing in Christian discussion forums.
     
    #4 Chris L., Aug 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2006
  5. xdisciplex

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    I'm not a skeptic or humanist. Does this question shake your faith or what?
    Do you not think that a real skeptic would come up with slightly different questions than those which I post? I think you have never met a skeptic.

    All I wanted to know was wether saying that we are no longer under the law is correct or not. And wether the levitical law was only for the jews and I also wanted to know wether God is done with the levitical law now where Jesus fulfilled it.
    And another thing which I also don't understand is how christians can say they are no longer under the law when they still have to obey it. The 10 commandments are still valid for christians. Then how can they say they're no longer under the law? :confused:

    Somehow these things are so complicated, this is really frustrating. :tear:
     
  6. genesis12

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    We are no longer under Moses and the Levitical Law. We Christians cannot now do anything we want to do. Paul makes this very clear in his great letters, and it is clear in the heart of every Christian who is approaching scripture with "the mind of Christ." We are no longer under the direct authority of the Ten Commandments. Jesus said there are two: Love the Lord your God, and your neighbor. All the commandments are included in these two, not as law, but as the result of God's gracious gift to us of Himself. Because He loves us, we want to serve Him, to follow Him, to walk with Him. Therefore, we love Him and we love our neighbor, whether next door or on the other side of the earth.
     
  7. xdisciplex

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    This means that the 10 commandments are subsumized in the 2 commandments of Jesus, right?

    But what about the levitical law? Today it's like when somebody for example says that eating pork is not allowed in the bible the christians will laugh and say that we're no longer under the law and somehow this sounds as if those laws are stupid and now God finally has done away with them but this isn't correct, right?
    Jesus fulfilled all these laws, also the levitical law, right?
    Does this mean that now where Jesus fulfilled all those laws that christians don't have to obey them any more and jews, too? Because messianic jews don't have to obey the levitical law, do they?
     
  8. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH
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    Christ brought some of the commandments from the old testament into the new testament. if you read the new testament, a lot of the laws that were in the old testament reappear in the new testament. also a lot of them don't, those are the ones that Christians are no longer supposed to obey. (sabbath keeping, animal sacrifices, burning of insense, instrumental music, etc.)

    not that there all summerized in 2 commandments, but more like catagories. if you take loving God and make a column, and then take loving you neighbor and make a column. all of the law and what the prophets said would fall under one of these catagories. plus Jesus said that loving God was the greatest commandment, and loving you neighbor was the second greatest command.( he didn't say that they were the only commandments)

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
  9. Don

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    Gee whiz, y'all make this complicated.

    Remember that it was believed that we had to keep the law in order to be saved; but that Christ fulfilled the law (see Galatians 2).

    Read Romans 14 to understand what effect keeping the Old Testament laws means now.

    Read Romans 13 to understand how we keep the law now.

    Read Romans 12 and 15 to understand why we keep the law (as explained in Romans 13) now.
     
  10. LeBuick

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    I thought Paul said we were not under the penalty of the law. It is still wrong to kill as it was the day Moses came off the mountian. It is still just as wong to have another God before the God of heaven and it is still wrong to covet your neighbors wife.

    Remember, while under the law the penalty was sin. Now there is no penalty because the sin is forgiven by the blood of Jesus. Where there is no law there is no transgression...
     
  11. EdSutton

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    Short it is!

    As to 'principles', each and ever' one of 'em; as to 'precepts', nary' a one of 'em.

    That is the 'short' of it.

    Ed
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Moses wasn't a Levite, but he 'wrote' the laws of the Levites ... and for them.
    In any case - if so accepted, all the Scriptures is inspired by the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of Christ - it says nothing at all if it doesn't tell of Jesus Christ. The Jews hold to senseless letter-laws while ironically it is the Christian who received the benefit of the 'old' Law - which benefit, is NOTHING if not Jesus. I have heard of health as one reward of the 'old' laws; others talk of riches; others of spiritual attainment, rich they got and very self-satisfied by all those laws - but they haven't gained Jesus.

    Jesus Christ answers to every possible meaning of the 'old Law' - and so becomes its true content and purpose - its fulfilment and essence. I believe in Jesus Christ - and that is why I believe the blood-sacrifices of old had MUCH more to it than the Jews have ever thought. And that's why I could never agree with those who say they were for the Jews only. They today in their ultimate Meaning and End are actually confirmed in their usefulness for the faith of the last age.
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    You are on the legalist road once you have set off on such mechanical splitting between Jesus' 'commandments' and Himself.

    The man and the Church that spontaneously follow in the Master's footstep are led by the Holy Spirit into the Law according to an Indestructable LIFE : The LIFE of Jesus Lord and God - Saviour to the uttermost - Commander and Demander of one's all and everthing. That's the Christian's Law. Follow after Jesws - actually been drawn and carried by Him - and you wil follow Him and obey God in righteousness. The man of experience will tell you - it's none of mine; but all grace.
     
  14. Linda64

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    Moses WAS a Levite:

    And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it in the flags by the river's brink. (Exodus 2:1-3)

    And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water. (Exodus 2:10)

    AARON

    (enlightened). The older son of Amram and Jochabed, of the tribe of Levi. He was born during the captivity in Egypt (Ex 6:16-27). His younger brother was Moses; his sister, Miriam (Nu 26:59).
     
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    There's a basic mistake in this your writing here, that of differentiating between the laws of the Old Testament so much. The Scriptures is one, and 'the Law' is one - whether 'ceremonial' or 'moral', 'Levitical' or Ten Commandments etc.

    Jesus TWICE said "... there are two (laws): Love the Lord your God, and your neighbor." He said it about 800 years apart. He today through His Spirit says it the third time while anyone has the Scriptures in his heart: "Today if you hear My Voice - which is Jesus Christ the Word of God - don' harden your heart like in the wilderness" -- implying the absolutely SAME RULE OF LIFE THEN AS NOW. God is no double talker. What He ever had to say is the same: Jesus Christ; WHAT He ever had to say is the same: Jesus Christ; HOW He ever said it is the same: through Jesus Christ. One Word of God; one Law of God : In the OT in the idiom of the Law; in the Nw Testament by the New Testament and by the Better Promise Himself in Person; in in the last age in the idiom of both. And through all three 'ages' His Spirit constantly the Silent Witness to the Christ.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    Depends on WHICH week you attend church as to what they say.

    When they want to point out that the Catholics are engaging in image worship - then the 1st and 2nd commandments "are valid".

    When they want to emphasize the truth about the 5th commandment and honoring parents - then that one also is valid.

    When they want to oppose abortion and murder - then the 6th commandment is not to be trampled on...

    When they want to oppose the immorality in movies and Hollywood then the commandment against adultery is something we SHOULD take seriously.

    Those who do not bash D.L.Moody will even accept and affirm the 4th commandment - the Sabbath commandment (with some editing)

    In the NT we see Lev 19:18 "Love your Neighbor" and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" endorsed repeatedly.

    In Rom 3:31 we are told "that we ESTABLISH THE LAW OF GOD by our Faith we do NOT abolish it"

    But then there ARE those on the other side of the fence who DO insist "Oh yes we do - we abolish the Law of God by our faith".
     
  17. BobRyan

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    But some have argued that these saints under persecution keeping God’s commandments are a select few – and not really the larger group – of all Christians – in God’s planning. Is that true?

    Isaiah 66 makes it clear regarding the “New Heavens and New Earth” also identified in Rev 20 -- [b]“From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to Worship”[/b]

    How can Christ the Creator call for ALL mankind to honor Sabbath as a day of Worship like that in the New Earth? Surely the Sabbath will NOT be for all mankind since in fact it WAS only for the Jews – correct?

    Christ the Creator addresses the point head-on

    “The Sabbath WAS MADE for Mankind” Mark 2:27

    From the very “making” of Christ the Creator’s Holy Day – it was “made for Mankind”
     
  18. BobRyan

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    The pre-cross Commandments of Christ
    John 14:15 ”If you love Me keep My commandments”

    Matt 5:17-22
    17 Think not that I am come to[b] destroy the law[/b], or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
    22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Instead of “less obedience” – God calls for “more”.

    Instead of “less obedience” to each commandment of Christ the Creator – God calls for “more”. No wonder Paul says --
    So lets see. The law will not change in even the minutest way, till heaven and earth pass. Anyone who breaks the law, and teaches others to do so, will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Thinking about committing sin is now just like actually committing the sin. Ah, the law has been magnified. Christ came and fulfilled the law, observing all of it’s commands, even in thought, not just action.

    Yes, lets let the scriptures speak for themselves.
    Christ quotes from the 3rd commandment for the statement above.

    Christ said that HIS commandment and the Father’s Commandment are one and the same
    Notice that John promotes this theme not only with his recording the pre-cross statements of Christ the hCreator – but also the post –cross teaching.
    Christ condemns those who would break the Commandments of God for the sake of man-made tradition –
    Christ’s followers continue to keep the Sabbath commandment after His command that they should “Love Me and Keep My Commandments” John 14:15 (quoting from the 3rd commandment in Exodus 20)
    Why do the Gospel writers take such care to teach us what Christ commanded them?

    Notice that John does not try to “divide God” as if God’s commandments are not Christ’s
     
  19. BobRyan

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    As for Law and Grace -- Pauls words in Romans 2:13-16 come to mind relative to "justification".

    Here the "New Covenant" promise of the "Law written on the heart" is clearly seen.

    Is it any wonder that Paul writes



    And James 2 tells us to live and act as those "Who are to be judged by God's Law of Liberty".

    God is not "calling for rebellion against His Law" as many Christians today "suppose".

    Nor is He "abolishing His law"
     

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