Is the USA now Sodom?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Edward63, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Edward63

    Edward63
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    The sins of the USA match Sodom as God describes in Ezekiel 16:48-50 -

    1. Pride (American exceptionalism spoken of by the 'right-wing', seen by many as arrogant and boastful; it is minus gratitude for God's blessings.)
    Webster's 1828 definition: , "pride - Inordinate self-esteem; an unreasonable conceit of one's own superiority in talents, beauty, wealth, accomplishments, rank or elevation in office, which manifests itself in lofty airs, distance, reserve, and often in contempt of others."

    “Though thou mount on high as the eagle, and though thy nest be set among the stars, I will bring thee down from thence, saith Jehovah.” (Ob 1:4 ASV)

    I cannot help but think of the USA putting men on the moon and our hi-tech ventures. We help invent the United Nations and support it as if it were the 'god' over human/world affairs. Calling slavery a 'national sin' when God does not do so; but,the populace is beginning to declare same-sex marriage valid and spitting in the face of the God of Scripture.

    2. Gluttony (America is a fat nation, out of the 10 fattest States, all are southern [Bible belt?] but MI and WV)
    http://www.businessinsider.com/fattest-states-in-america-2011-7?op=1

    3. Prosperous ease or abundance of idleness, KJV (5-day 40-hr work week, high incomes and the most free leisure time of any people in history, but we must move scheduled worships times for Super Bowls or summer recreations.)

    4. Did not strengthen hand of the poor (Today we take from the producers by force and give-away to the poor to buy votes in the horror of democracy. In Scripture the guide is, leave for the poor to work for their own living: “And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them for the poor, and for the sojourner: I am Jehovah your God.” (Le 23:22 ASV)

    5. We're haughty (dictorial towards other nations, arrogance in pushing democracy on others as we abandon our own God-given Republican form of government guaranteed by the Constitution.) To distinguish from the "pride" the first in this list of sins: 1828 Websters: "haughty - Proud and disdainful; having a high opinion of one's self, with some contempt for others; lofty and arrogant; supercilious[dictatorial]."

    6. Committed abomination (this word 'to ebah', abomination; is used 41 times in Ezekiel, that is 37% of the occurrences in all of the OT and in Ezekiel it largely concerns idolatry.)

    “for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also.” (Mt 6:21 ASV)
    “Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry;” (Col 3:5 ASV)

    Follow the 'money trail' and you'll see the idolatry in the USA. Drives and backyards populated with bass boats, RVs, motorcycles, ATVs, Sea-doos, etc. Inside the house are books/magazines on sports, Hollywood personalities, glamour and fashion but few Bibles and commentaries. Big screen TVs with awesome sound systems so as to watch the sex filled commercials, so-called news shows populated by long-legged blondes, and the nightly cable fare that would have made our grandparents die of embarrassment at the smut. Yet it is in family viewing hours. It is not just in the home, too many churches are indistinguishable from rock concerts and rap thumping.

    The judgment is falling on us as in Isaiah 3 -

    "I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them"v4, "the child shall behave himself proudly against the old man, and the base against the honorable" v5, "their tongue and their doings are against Jehovah, to provoke the eyes of his glory. The show of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not" v8,9.....

    “As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they that lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.” (Isa 3:12 ASV)

    More women are in law school then men and what do corrupt lawyers do, they run for office and rule the land. We have seen a blatant example of the horrors of this in the George Zimmerman persecution. An out of control woman as a State Prosecuting Attorney, a biased woman judge; and then the jury of ALL women! Thank God Zimmerman had an excellent Defense Attorney.

    Look at the ever growing number of women ruling in State houses across the land and as heads of churches and denominations. In Washington they are gradually taking over. Yet, can we blame the women? If you read Isaiah chapter 3, that judgment makes plain there are no male statesmen, no true men of honor and leadership quality. The 'feminization of men'? That does indeed describe our day in the USA.

    Remember what God told his OT people:

    “But thou shalt remember Jehovah thy God, for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth; that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as at this day. And it shall be, if thou shalt forget Jehovah thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.” (De 8:18-19 ASV)

    What did God tell the church:

    “For the time is come for judgment to begin at the house of God: and if it begin first at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of God?” (1Pe 4:17 ASV)

    As goes corruption and apostasy in the churches, so follows the fall of Washington, DC and the nation, unless..................
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    :thumbs:
    Amen!!:thumbs::thumbs:
     
  3. Aaron

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    Pretty much nails it.
     
  4. Greektim

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    I would add that the church has grievously erred by syncretizing Christianity w/ patriotism and the civil religion of Americana. The capital city is strewn about with religious symbolism (i.e. google the apotheosis of Washington to see him pictured as Zeus in the rotunda). And Christians have made it part and parcel to their own worship as if America is the chosen nation of God.
     
  5. Edward63

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    Yes, and this national religion of government has its own blasphemous hymn to sing along with it: "Battle Hymn of the Republic" by a social activist and Unitarian who denies the Trinity:
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/07/laurence-m-vance/blasphemy-in-song/
     
  6. michael-acts17:11

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    That all makes for great sounding preaching, but it is hardly Scriptural to say that we have become as Sodom. Those who like hell-fire & brimstone preaching may love it, but not those who compare what they hear to the Word of God. Why don't we look at the actual text which describes Sodom & God's terms for its destruction? Sodom was full of wicked people. There was not a righteous presence in that city. America is no where near the condition of Sodom. Had there been ten righteous men in all the city, God would have spared it for their sake. There are still millions of believers in America. Even in our most depraved cities, we have believers praying & preaching against the tide of wickedness.

    Is there wickedness in America? Yes. Are the wicked prospering & gaining ground every day? Yes. But that does not make us as empty of the "righteous" as Sodom. I would challenge you to list just one city in America that is as wicked as Sodom with fewer than ten believers. Just one. No bloviating. No Sermonizing. No hyperbole. Just one city that meets the criteria used to judge Sodom.


    And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place. (Gen 18:20-33)
     
    #6 michael-acts17:11, Jul 20, 2013
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  7. Protestant

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    Hi There!

    In your "Guide to Prophecy" post you indicated "Satan is bound now".
    However, in this present post you say: "As goes corruption and apostasy in the churches, so follows the fall of Washington, DC and the nation, unless.................."

    If Satan is now bound, how do you explain the 'corruption and apostasy in the churches' which you admit is rampant?
     
  8. DrJamesAch

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    The USA is more an extension of the beast of ROME. Just some facts and a few things out of Revelation 18:

    *The name "America" is named after a die-hard Roman Catholic Amerigo Vespucci

    *The Capitol of America is in the most dominant Catholic state in the US, in MARY land

    *Revelation 17:9 clearly identifies the harlot as Rome due to specific geographics (7 Hills). The White House is also called Capitol HILL.

    *The US national currency is totally inundated with Illuminati and Freemason symbolism. The dollar bill alone has "New World Order" (Novus Ordo Seclorum) written in Latin under the Illuminati symbol of the all-seeing eye of Horus. It has the date of the founding of the Illuminati in American written in Roman numerals etched into the bottom of the pyramid. It uses the occult number 13 in given the god of Illuminati credit for providence (13 letters annuit coeptis) 13 letters for e plurabis unim, 13 levels on the pyramid, 13 arrows, 13 stars, 13 stripes (the "number of the beast" is found in Revelation 13).

    *The entire American legal system is based on the Roman Pax Romana and is replete with Latin terminology (the language of Rome). Here's a list of just a few (about a hundred or so) of them. Most of all the butcher policies and usurping of what were once good laws are by manipulating the legal system. Had it not been for the Baptists in Virginia the "Bill of Rights" would have never made it into the US Constitution.

    *ALL of the major government offices are decked with the symbolism of Roman, Egyptian gods and Freemasonry.

    *The organization designed to unite the world is called the United Nations (located at 666 UN Plaza in New York) which was originally created by the Treaty of Rome. The most powerful agencies on the planet (the ACTUAL governments that control the world politics and economy) are the Tri-Latteral Committe, Council on Foreign Relations, UN all located in the New York, and the Bilderberg group which meets at the Marriott outside of DC (owned by the Mormon Church).

    *Revelation 18 describes the economic prosperity of this Babylonian harlot, part of which describes her has having the "slaves and souls of men" Rev 18:13.

    *The voice of the bride groom and of the bride has been a prominent factor in the US. Rev 18:23. No other nation has ever produced as many missionaries and churches as the US, England being a close second.

    There are 2 beasts described in Revelation 13-18. One is an empire, and the other an individual. Rev 16:13. The "beast" has been one continuous empire dominated by the god of this world (2 Cor 4:4, Eph 6:11-12) since Nimrod in Genesis 11, that extended through Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and in the last days Rome/US. A large percentage of the Vatican Conclave are now US citizens. Every major clergy member in all government capacities are Roman Catholic. Any movie you see where a religious figure is the dominant theme of the movie (particularly in movies about demon possession) the figure is always an RCC priest.

    World War 2 was funded by 2 American Nazi Catholics after Hitler signed a corcodat with Pope Pius XII in 1933. One of those men was the grandfather of George H.W. Bush, Prescott Bush. (Who was a partner of a banking institution, UBC, that JFK had shut down because it was deemed a funneling system for money to the Nazi Party during WW2.)

    When the Pope says jump, the US presidents say "how high" (and DITTO for Netanyahu, Blair, Cameron, Hollande, Leterme, Jinping, and even Putin and Ahmadinejad). The US is in the best position to establish the one world order both politically and religiously and the nations under the US and Rome will eventually give their authority directly to the man of sin.

    The US ceased being "one nation under GOD" in 1776. Virtually every Masonic president helped erode the US economy and morals right up to FDR kicking the communist agenda into full gear. America will not be fixed by the false dichotomy of the democrat/republican parties, the voting system is non existent as the president is merely a puppet of those who have the real power over world policies. When the US allowed the banking institutions to govern its currency by a non government controlled agency accountable to no one (the FR), and permitted legislation to be based on "majority rule" instead of absolute standards, America gave up any hope of remaining a blessed nation. The current jurisprudence approving sodomite relationships is just the nail in the coffin.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

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  10. Greektim

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    I don't think everything here is correct, but I am surprised at how much we agree. And that from a futurist position, I was surprised as some of your conclusions. You would make a good idealist interpreter of Rev.
     
  11. Edward63

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    That is an excellent question and presents a tension in my mind also. I have wondered if even though "bound" and "defeated", Satan's demons still have some freedom. Or, maybe we do not fully recognize the sin in our own hearts and wish to blame Satan, though he is bound. I only have the word which I must accept which I have given. Now, it seems through history there have been periods of such declension and spiritual darkness, then God moves and there is revival of the "faith once delivered to the saints". It was very bleak appearing before the Protestant Reformation. Yet, I tend to be more of a post-mil and believe overall from the 1st century until more modern times, the gospel has had great sway and success around the world. I am not a pessimist as my posts may seem. :laugh:

    Now, because of the tension between the spread and success of the gospel and these period of darkness; I also wonder if we are in this period below:

    “And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Re 20:7-10 ASV)

    I understand the 1000 years to be representative of the reign of Christ from the 1st to the 2nd advent. So, are we in that end time of the 1000 years where Satan is released? This is one of those reasons I am not dogmatic on schools of prophecy. I can only take the explicit and clear statements of Scripture and trust in God that he knows what he is doing even though I cannot fit all the pieces together by sight for I must live by faith in God and his word. :thumbs:

    I wonder if God is going to grant us repentance and then another revival of the faith. Or, will God move on to other areas of the globe with his blessings.
     
  12. Edward63

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    Look at the title of the OP, see the "?" In the passage I was using it is comparing Jerusalem to Sodom:

    “Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations;” (Eze 16:2 ASV)

    “As I live, saith the Lord Jehovah, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters. Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom: pride, fulness of bread, and prosperous ease was in her and in her daughters; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].” (Eze 16:48-50 ASV)

    I do not think the Lord Jehovah was telling Jerusalem there were not 10 righteous persons within her. Who knows, maybe God will grant repentance unto the USA and we have revival!? We can pray for it for sure.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    God has richly blessed the United States. We have returned that with legalizing abortion, and are slow but certain march to a 50 state legalization of gay marriage. Sin has always been around, but at least most were ashamed of it, and kept it in the background of society. Not today, it is a badge of honor. It is like we take the sin and rub it in God's nose. The Lord punished a lot of nations in the OT for a lot less than we have already done.

    Having said that, how many posters who are living in America and are citizens, consider the situation so dire, they would be willing to take a one way plane trip to North Korea?

    Isn't the answer as much as we are also sinners, is to try and bring about change in our nation, repent before the Lord, so He will heal our land.

    For those that do not live here, maybe you should concern yourself with your own nation.
     
  14. Thomas Helwys

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    A very good post.

    I have thought about what it would be like to move elsewhere.......but where is it any better?
     
  15. Luke2427

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    It's not even remotely close to Sodom.

    God would have spared Sodom for ten righteous souls.

    There are more than enough people on Baptistboard ALONE to starkly contrast America with Sodom.

    And that's not to mention the millions of other Christians in America. Here in the South where I live I am surrounded on every hand with devout Christians- people who sacrifice greatly to feed hungry people, to raise money for neighbors stricken with cancer and other ailments and tragedies. People who believe the Bible is the infallible Word of God and are genuinely trying to live by it to the best of their understanding and ability.

    No.

    America is not even CLOSE to Sodom.
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    In a nutshell!

    ...I just checked my Google Maps, and it shows that America is within a days drive of Sodom! :wavey:
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Well America is not the kingdom of God by anybodys reckonings either. More like a garbage dump...but its getting close to cess pool status these days.
     
    #17 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 21, 2013
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  18. Inspector Javert

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::wavey: Agreed:
    It makes charming "Hell-fire" preaching as Michael earlier observed, but people seriously fail to understand how rampant sin has been in EVERY culture and in every time. Different ones at different times. Even the idealized Victorian Age and the Puritan era and the supposedly impeccable 1950's were rife with sins.

    History does nothing to encourage that assumption.
    What I WOULD say though in supporting the O.P. is that the U.S. doesn't "hide" it's sins like we did in the past.

    There is a certain arrogance, and a complete lack of the fear of God in that we plaster it everywhere instead of at least keeping up a façade of righteousness. We now have a "whore's forehead...we refuse to be ashamed".

    But, I have to recall the practice of the Spartans to leave unwanted infants to die of exposure, the widespread practice and acceptance of pederasty in ancient Rome, the ancient Assyrians pre-dilection for physical violence, cruelty and incessant war-fare has arguably NEVER been matched either before or afterwards by any culture. (Excepting, perhaps the ante-diluvian age, where God points to that specifically as a cause for the flood).

    In the 19th Century, drunkenness and spousal abuse in the U.S. existed on a truly catastrophic level.
    I don't remember the statistic precisely, so my number is going to be off, but I once saw a History channel program which said that in the first half of the 19th century AT LEAST half of all men (and I believe it was far more) in New York City had admitted to consorting with prostitutes.
    We need to continue to bring the gospel and speak to the sins of our generation which are manifold, but there is NOTHING NEW under the Sun.
     
    #18 Inspector Javert, Jul 21, 2013
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  19. Revmitchell

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    I like hell fire and brimstone preaching but I believe the op to be ext4emely liberal and unscriptural and over he top. It is more about an axe to grind about national patriotism than anything else.
     
  20. convicted1

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    I see us a more modern day Israel. When things are going "swimmingly", our nation doesn't need Him. But when 9/11 struck, everybody got patriotic, got God-fearing, etc. Now that we're back to status quo, our country believes we don't need Him. The OT Israelites did this all the time......
     

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