Is there a Calvinist agenda to reform traditional Southern Baptist churches? Absolute

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Dec 23, 2013.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    ...Ernest Reisinger, the chief architect of Founders, a Calvinist ministry, describes in great detail [in an article on the Founders Ministries website] how to “reform” a traditional church. He even gives the agenda a name: “The Quiet Revolution.” Make no mistake, there is an intentional effort to “reform” traditional SBC churches into “reformed” (code word for Calvinist) churches.

    Traditional SBC church leaders and their churches need to be informed about this Calvinist agenda. They need to be informed on how to ask the right questions to determine the true theological positions of their pastoral candidates. Not only would this process identify Calvinist candidates but other candidates who may not be a good fit for their church, such as candidates who speak in tongues, candidates who believe that one can lose their salvation, or candidates who believe that the Ten Commandments are no longer valid.

    But the main difference between Calvinists and other nontraditional Baptist candidates is that only Calvinists are actively trying to change local SBC churches to their beliefs.

    In response to the Calvinist efforts to reform non-Calvinist churches, a group of traditional Southern Baptist leaders and scholars wrote a “Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation.” The list of signatures includes over 250 pastors (representing small, medium, and large churches in 29 states), six former SBC presidents, seven state Baptist convention executives, four members of the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 committee, over 20 associational directors of missions, five Baptist seminary and college presidents, and hundreds of other evangelists, church staff members, and lay ministers. After the release of this statement, many Calvinists said they wanted unity in our convention.

    Traditional Southern Baptists also desire unity, and I believe that unity is an attainable goal but only when Calvinists cease trying to reform traditional SBC churches to their views.

    http://www.brnow.org/Opinions/Guest...here-a-Calvinist-agenda-to-reform-traditional
     
  2. agedman

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    "Traditional" SB churches were usually Calvinistic in their founding documents.

    What I have suggested for decades is that local assemblies dust off their founding agreements. Those statements of faith in which the local body of believers have agreed.

    Look for areas of agreement and what may need revised.

    Such an underground action by any "infiltrating group" is just wrong.

    I find it foolish and fool hardy.

    It is divisive and a cheapening of the work of the Holy Spirit in the Local assembly.

    Better that such resolve to assemble themselves under their own statements of faith, and build their own assembly to the Glory of God.
     
  3. prophet

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    Re: Is there a Calvinist agenda to reform traditional Southern Baptist churches? Abso

    Presby lite, or Reformed lite, or a hybrid of the two, is what they'll find at their core.
    Maybe they want to pretend that they were Baptist all along.
    Maybe they couldn't define that term, due to historical 'baptist' creedal influence.

    I'm sure there are churches, in the Convention, that were Baptist before they joined.
    These may have a Statement of Faith that varies greatly from the Reformbytyrian churches.
    How can they reconcile Pretrib Dispensationalists with degrees from DTS, to the amillenialists from another school?
     
  4. Aaron

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    That may be a goal of the Founders, but not the goal of Calvinists. Calvinists know it is impossible to yoke themselves together with noncalvinist assemblies. They should simply and politely bow out and start their own SBC assemblies.
     
    #4 Aaron, Dec 24, 2013
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  5. Yeshua1

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    Think that there is a difference between trying to have calvinistic theology for say Sotierology taught and held than tying to make SBC become reformed baprists proper!

    And again, i am a non SBC baptist, isn't the traditional view of each one of us able to decide for ourselves whether to hold to cal/Arm/Non come into play here?
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

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    How does any true Calvinist endure sittin in a church where the Pastor tells the church that they must come to Christ for their salvation....IE, if it is to be, then its up to me. That delivery causes me to gag & walk out. Any real Calvinist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist etc will tell you that that isnt how they were saved.

    Bottom line Aaron, your correct......No Calvinistic believer should want to even be part of a blended church.....it goes against the grain. They have their churches & we have ours.
     
  7. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Charles Haddon Spurgeon gave an invitation of varying intensity and words, but similar to this:

    Spurgeon didn't call men to an altar, but to Christ
    Spurgeon was one of the staunchest Calvinists in Christian history, and yet he gave an invitation. He didn't call it an "altar call" which is a term that is of debatable usage, I'll admit, but the result was the same. Spurgeon called men and women to pray for salvation. It is as someone said on my other thread, God is the soda to man's vinegar. He provides all the impetus, but nonetheless action is required, and it is not incompatible with what you believe.
     
  8. Winman

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    Spurgeon is describing both the "sinner's prayer" and "easy believism" there. He called himself a Calvinist, but he preached like an Arminian.
     
  9. preacher4truth

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    Non (really anti truth) Calvinist SBC churches NEED reformed.

    Tired of the mewling themselves as such:'No, we don't believe in the Sovereignty of God as you do, He gave us control and not even He can thwart our ways nor stay our hands, contrary to what Scripture attests. Nor do we believe He chose us unconditionally, because we know that it is we who have chosen Him. Nor do we accept that it is He who gave us faith, we had that ability within ourselves. Nor do we believe your Scriptural stance that repentance came from Him, no, we did that too! Nor do we accept the other Scriptural Calvinistic truth that salvation is a free gift. It is not that, it is only given after we in our own inherent strength and ability exercise our free will choosing, inherent faith and ability, and then and only then are we rewarded with eternal life! He has by ridding Himself of Sovereignty, given it to each of us, in spite of the fact Scripture teaches otherwise, and now, it is we who are the Potter, and it is He who is the clay. How dare you Calvinists speak against us and our beliefs because they do not match up with Scripture, you must accept us or you're filled with hate!'
     
  10. Rippon

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    That's why Arminians like yourself will never understand true Calvinism until your eyes have been opened. Calvinists can preach passionately and have a sincere burden for souls. You call that Arminianism. I call it being faithful to the Word of God. I think that a regenerate Arminian prays like a Calvinist.
     
  11. JonC

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    I recall reading a sermon that specifically addresses the human response to salvation. He acknowledged the lack of understanding some Calvinists and Non-Calvinist held as they chose to exclude biblical doctrine in order to highlight others (I'm sure the sermon has made its way here at least once, so I'm not looking it up). Spurgeon kept a biblical (perhaps unusually biblical by today’s standard) perspective and balance between understanding God’s sovereign election and man’s response to salvation.

    Some churches are united in Christ rather than those doctrines which could otherwise divide (they are, of course, divided into local churches and denominations based on other issues and doctrines). It depends on what is central to one’s faith, and here a statement of faith is useful. Some people cannot “agree to disagree,” as Whitefield stated and Wesley borrowed. Perhaps it is better for these to segregate rather than cause division. I just wish this would occur a little more quietly and with a little less damage.
     
  12. Winman

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    I understand when people speak out of both sides of their mouth.
     
  13. evangelist6589

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    No he did not. This is false.... Way of the Master quotes him all the time as well as MacArthur. They usually do not quote from non Calvinists.
     
  14. evangelist6589

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    Explain... Please.
     
  15. Winman

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    You probably do not even know what I was referring to;

    Spurgeon quotes the publican in the Bible, "God be merciful to me a sinner!"

    That is the "sinner's prayer" my friend.

    If someone posted this sermon from an Arminian preacher like John Wesley, you Calvinists would be screaming "Easy believism!!!"
     
  16. Winman

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    I am talking about what total hypocrites most Calvinists are. You Calvinists constantly complain about the sinner's prayer or the altar call. Then you preach like an Arminian. That is speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    If an Arminian said, "God be merciful to me a sinner!" you guys would be screaming, "easy believism!" and "false conversion!" You say this all the time!!

    But if a Calvinist does it, then it is OK. HYPOCRITES.
     
    #16 Winman, Dec 24, 2013
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  17. JonC

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    Spurgeon:

    "those people who, in very truth love Christ enough to cry to Him continually to come, are sure to love sinners, also, and to say to them, 'Come!'"

    "Have you a will to be cleansed from sin? A will to be made a new creature in Christ Jesus? Do you will to have eternal life? Then thus says the Spirit to you, "Whoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Now, notice three vast doors through which the biggest and most elephantine sinner that ever made the earth shake beneath the weight of his guilt may go. Here are the three doors. "Whoever"—"Will"—"Freely."

    "You remember the story of the country man who would not cross the river just yet, but sat down and said he would wait until all the water had gone by? He waited a long time in vain and he might have waited forever, for rivers are always flowing. You, too, are waiting till a more convenient season shall come and all the difficulties shall have gone by. Forget about such supreme folly! There will always be difficulty! The river will always flow! O man, be wise! Plunge into it and swim across! Now is the accepted time and now is the day of salvation!"

    "Only trust Him! Only trust Him! Only trust Him now! He will save you! He will save you! He will save you now!" Cast yourselves upon the blood and merits of the Lord Jesus and the great work is done! The Lord help you to do so. Amen.
     
    #17 JonC, Dec 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2013
  18. preacher4truth

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    Amen! One of your latest great posts of '13. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    More cagey calvinism I see.
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    Closed at request of op.

    Why? So far off track and beyond help. Sad, guys.
     
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