Is There a Difference Between Being Saved & Offering Your Life as a Living Sacrifice?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by The Archangel, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. The Archangel

    The Archangel
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    2,444
    Likes Received:
    0
    Starting this thread is a result of a comment I saw in one of John of Japan's posts (here). He said:

    Thank God that preaching yesterday and today at Youth Camp God saw fit to save a teenager and help another offer herself as a living sacrifice. To God be the glory! Ya'll really need to get out more--and proclaim the Lord to the lost, whichever side of this argument you are on.

    This post is in the thread "Are you a universalist or do you believe in limited atonement?" First off, let me say we are all guilty of not proclaiming Christ to the lost as much as we should. I think John of Japan is exactly right about that. His missions work in a completely foreign land and foreign culture humbles me greatly.

    I did want to ask this question, however.

    Is there a difference in being saved and offering your life as a living sacrifice? I don't think so. Being saved requires that you offer your life as a living sacrifice and offering your life as a living sacrifice requires you to have been saved.

    These two things, I think, are inextricably linked--they are like two sides of the same coin. You can't have one without the other.

    What do you think?

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
    #1 The Archangel, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2008
  2. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would disagree Archangel. I know plenty of people who are saved but still live for themselves. I think I am guilty of that myself from time to time. Just because we are saved does not mean we are perfect mature Christians. Occasionally we sin and are given in to selfishness and greed. That does not mean we are lost, but it does mean we are not giving ourselves completely to God.

    I find a lot of people try to compartmentalize their lives. They give God parts but keep other parts for themselves. They might give God Sunday but keep Saturday night. They might want to give God their free time but keep their work or business.

    Just my opinion.
     
  3. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    He then changes here at chpt 12 and begins to talk about how we can live for God through Christ. Offering yourself as a Living sacrifice is about Living for God through the act of his Son Christ Jesus. It is not a condition of salvation, it is the ultimate desire of all that are saved and diligently seek Him. My true hearts desire is that I might have more lives to live for my Savior.

    Having said that, I am happy to see John's post didn't go completely unnoticed as it really touched my heart. For the bible declares the joy even in Heaven when one sinner comes to Christ and I would love to see heaven stay full of joy. And as he predicted, the thread then went back to the usual...
     
  4. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great opinion... :thumbs:
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,212
    Likes Received:
    192
    Hello, Archangel.

    Glad you were blessed.

    My answer is simple. Yes, there is a difference. Rom. 12:1 says, "I beseech you, brethren...." So it is addressed to saved people, not losts people, beseeching them to offer themselves as a living sacrifice.

    God bless.
     
  6. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0

    Sounds like Lordship Salvation to me.
    Being saved requires God's grace through faith plus nothing. If salvation required our works (living sacrifice) it is not by grace.
     
    #6 webdog, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2008
  7. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe in salvation we offer ourselves a lving sacrifice but ever after, it is a continuing sacrifice of sanctification.

    One thing that I believe is critical to note is that it is our BODIES that we are to offer, Rom 12. Our souls may be saved eternally, our spirits are being saved progressively by the "abiding" Holy Spirit, but the body is still overwhelmingly influenced by the world. The flesh and the thoughts generated by the flesh must be "repented" of or laid on the altar continually.

    I believe it is critical to salvation that you turn from self, not just the sins that you can name at that time. But afterward, we all will have "adjust the meathooks" (as Dr Rogers used to say referring to the ones used by Israel to keep the sacrifice in place) to keep the sacrifice from slipping off the altar.

    skypair
     
    #7 skypair, Mar 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2008
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,332
    Likes Received:
    786
    No. There is a difference between being mature and being willing. A person who is unwilling to have a heart for God does not equal an imature saved person. However mature you may be if you do not have a heart for God you are lost not imature.
     
  9. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you suggesting that if our sacrifice slips off of the altar we are no longer saved? Jesus took care of my sacrifice, I am saved by him alone not by any adjustments I make. I am guessing from your post you do not belive in eternal security.
     
  10. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    2
    I have been contemplating this for quite sometime. At age 11 I knew I needed Christ and I prayed for forgiveness and thought I was saved. then for the next 11 years I became more and more of a prodigal child. at age 22 I gave and told God I wanted to give Him everything I had to give and be something great for Him in my short time here. I can't tell you if I was already saved and rededicated my life or if I was saved for the first time. I have learned 1,000 times in 5 months and hundreds of miracles have been performed on me since then. Now I am noticing many answered prayers, and seeing the evidence and feel exactly as john says in his first letter.
    I have a hard time sharing Christ right now because I don't want to be false unknowingly. I still do share Christ every chance He gives me, but only at that point of speaking do I know how far to take it, it seems.
    I see archangels point because this has been on my heart for a long time.
    If you truly beleive you want to give it all and if you don't want to give it all then do you truly beleive or are you just trying to add Christ to your life just in case you need Him?
     
  11. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    2
    I agree that it is a two sided ticket and this goes along with my point. It really isnt for us to decide who is saved and down to the nitty gritty, but ourselves to assure that we give all we can all the time. If we are truly saved we want to give all we can in our new lives we've been given. You are taking a huge risk if you are telling Christ I only want to give a little. I am not one to judge or condemn, but giving it all is the only assurance in my personal opinion. Now on the flip side, if you gave it all at one point and then a few years later you slacked off of your commitment "backsliding" then you know what you once had and most likely will recommit when God disciplines you in whatever necessary way. Trust me true happiness and fullness of life is in complete until sacrifice to the Lord is given. Why would you not want to give it all and practice giving more and more? If you know the truth then you know all must be given. This is my feeling on the subject
     
  12. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sacrifices are offered repeatedly, for our feeble attempts to please God are flawed from the outset. We know there is a difference because Paul said 'bretheren, I beseech you therefore...'
    Sacrifices of carnality must be offered again and again.
     
  13. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    2
    No I dont think thats what he is saying. The answer is that No you cannot lose your salvation. the question is have you ever been saved. I am sure there are many people who think they are saved and are not.

    I always like to comapare a relationship with Christ to marriage..

    A marriage doesnt work if both arent completely dedicated and want to be. IF not it isnt a true marriage. Jesus is going to be fully dedicated now do you really want to give full dedication? And the baptism is like the wedding ring.
     
  14. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    2
    I also agree that we must keep sacrificing ourselves.

    So is He saying that when we are 1st saved we can say hey Jesus I need you, but I dont trust you with everything only about 60%, deal? Thats basically what our heart is saying, even if our words are different.

    What is the best way to say thank you to Jesus who gave His life, but to give ours and not just 60%?

    I am learning, so please tell me how I am wrong (which I hope I am) because if I am than there will be many more saved in this world than I thought, not that I had a number..
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    12,212
    Likes Received:
    192
    We have to trust Jesus Christ 100% for salvation, in this way you are right. We can't trust Him 60% and Buddha 40% as in some syncretistic religions. He is the only path to Heaven.

    However, as for giving yourself to Christ 100% at salvation, what does the sinner have to offer Him that He needs? He is just a poor lost sinner, with nothing that Jesus wants until he is saved.

    To offer yourself as a sacrifice to God before you are saved or as a part of salvation, to me is to say, "Here, God, take these old filthy rags (Is. 64:6) and do something with them." But in the OT a sacrifice was required to be spotless and without blemish. We have nothing like that to offer to God until He saves us.
     
  16. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    2
    -Alright I trust you so please help me out here.. And what you say makes perfect sense, obviously because its Gods word. Please don't think I am desputing you, just simply trying to find someone who is greatly knowledged to explain me my wrongings so I can be a better witness. I have a lot of people in my life who need me as a witness to help them. So if you could please go back through my 4 posts on this thread and help me break them down that would be awesome. thanks

    So you first thing you said in your reply is you cant trust Jesus 90% and buddha 10%. Now buddha could be subbed out with money, job, or any material thing because it is no more than that to me, correct. SO when you first accept Christ you must state it clear that you want nothing to stand between "He" and "you"? So if you give 90% of trust in Jesus, but can't let that bank account go its not there?

    Now your second part I agree with but you are saying to Jesus I have nothing to offer and am helpless without you,yes, but I know you (Jesus) can make something of my future life to benefit your kingdom and whatever it is I accept. Now the wrong man here would say from his heart that he doesnt want his future life to be altered which is a form of distrust. If you want him to conform your life to him sanctify (become more like him) you already give up your whole life at that point whatever it may be large or small to him? Do you see how I feel? SO yes the man/woman is a poor lost sinner, but this is part of realization I think.

    your last point- Yes that makes sense and I am not saying you are wrong in any of it, I dont think. Yes, Is. 64:6 thats how I feel. so before we are saved we cannot be a sacrifice, yes I agree, and after we are saved by the blood of the lamb we are now good to offer up a sacrifice whether its 10% or 100%? it makes sense. So to be saved we must be aware to sin no more (purposely so to speak, not that we won't) and follow Christ and want to, correct? So what if we want to be saved and are not and say I want to be saved and offer no sacrifice to God? Thats ok? Again these are just things I am not sure of, but sacrifice seems hand in hand in following Jesus, and trying to live a godly life because God did sacrifice everything to himself through his Son here on earth. It just seems off and part of conditioning your heart to the saving knowledge given by Christ you already know beforehand you want to give yourself to God even though you are not worthy of it yet..

    I will be on later to continue and thanks for the help, God Bless
     
  17. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, no! But you are familiar with the term "backsliding," aren't you? Salvation just becomes "less rewarding" in every respect if we aren't "secured" to that altar -- if we take constant "hooking" or "tending" before the "altar" part is over. :laugh:

    skypair
     
  18. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dwight L. Moody had a good word for you -- "The world has yet to know what God could do with one man who is totally surrendered to Him!"

    Let me try to answer what I think your questions are to John. It is so beautiful for a child to come to Jesus because they really don't have that much of "self" to lay on the altar. I was saved at 16. I did have a few things in my life that I wasn't proud of and hadn't given up -- smoking, for one. But here's the thing - unless you are saved, with what power can you quit of sin except you put your life in the hands of God? It won't work to put works before salvation and another thing you will find out -- it won't work to get ahead of God. You can be eager to serve and pray "Use me, Lord." But you need preparation to do you know not what yet. Let God time it all and you take care of the other essentials in your life. Family is first among your secular obligations. You have obligations to your job. These are not other "masters" -- they are other witnessing and learning fields that make it hard to say whether your day consists of 90% serving God or 20% (In fact, God uses family primarily to teach you how to relate to others, even as you yourself said about marriage.)

    Balance, zrs. You can glorify God 100% but you can't and won't always be called to serve Him with 100% of your time, effort, money, etc.

    skypair
     
    #18 skypair, Apr 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2008
  19. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well you're wrong in thinking that you can give only say, 60%. There is no 'degree' of faith. Either you have have faith or you don't. It's just that when you are saved you surrender to God, but you don't even know all of the things God will require from you. So, initially you 100% surrender, then through your life, God points out things that are included in that 100%, and we are faced with surrendering those things.
    In addition, upon further spiritual maturity, God may call you to do this or that. Those things require additional sacrifice as well.
     
  20. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yea I see both of your points and like I said I didnt know for sure and thank you for clearing these things up for me. I am not going to say I fully understand everything, because it is a little confusing still. I have in fact experienced giving up countless things, including the impossible, along the way as you explained and its funny you said family is first because that is what God laid up on my heart first.

    I have, with all praise to God, led my mom to church for one. the third week of my rededication or being saved I was led to the pastor by God because I was concerned about my family not knowing Christ. I prayed for it a lot at ages 11-16, but 16-22 I went down hill. I have family that are Jehovah's witnesses on my moms side. My pastor just so happened to be a Jehovah's witness before he was saved. He happen to write a book on it and was able to give it to me to study so I could learn a little about their beleifs. He also encouraged that I join the church. I hadnt been to church in 8 years and put the prodigal son to shame in the past 4 let me tell you. well I wanted to join but I felt God told me I needed to get my dad back in because he also hadnt been involved in 8 years so I decided I wasnt going to join until he was (My dad is another scary story that I worry about). So after some work on him I got him to join with me. Well the day we walked up to join God told me that I wouldnt be coming back to the church for Sunday worship anymore which threw a huge barrier on my heart b/c He did it during church the same day like 10 minutes before the end of the sermon when we were going to go move our membership. He said I had to find a church close to my moms house and start going there so she will get involved. As you know I dont mean I heard words but He laid it on my heart. Well I said ok and I still went up and joined the church. Well the following Sunday I had already forgotten what God laid on my heart about finding a new church for my mom, but for some reason I woke up early which was unlike me. So I went upstairs and got online and found three churches and went on a mission to find the right one. I ended up in one and went there a couple of weeks by myself and had a great connection with the pastor and really started to grow and change at that point. well a month later my mom started to come which is a miracle in itself and shes been going for 3 months pretty consitantly, but I dont know if she has accepted Christ yet and I have been trying my best to do the right thing on that such as being patient and whenever I feel lead I say something to help her.


    I have learned a lot and I know if your faithful and trust God he always comes through. I feel God has called me to mission work of some sort, to change schools to seek a degree in theology (which I am doing), and possibly to preach (which is hard for me), to write and be knowledgable in God's word. I dont know why but these are the only things I feel like Id be satisfied doing. 6 months ago I would have laughed at these things and now they are my passions to surround as much of my life with Him as I can and these seem to be my only options and ones I desire. I am like moses though that I have horrible anxiety in public speaking but at the same time I want to face my fear and be able to do it one day. there are many more reasons I believe he has called me to do these things. For one I hated to read and write and now its my passion to learn and write things that happen to me and things I learn. And I can go on for days on stuff.

    After all this carrying on about stuff, how is it you know that you are called to do something for God and when do you know its time? I have an answer, but I want to hear yours.

    So based on what I said on previous statement at age 11 are you saying I was saved or I just became saved at age 22 and recommitted my life?

    I just look at how I was and how the bible speaks in 1John and shake my head sometimes, but at the same time now I can relate to people more and dont look at people with horrible habits as evil but at them as they just dont understand the truth. I also have a great testimony, but I am always confused on when i first became saved.

    Again sorry to ramble on its just I really dont have to many people in my life knowledgable enough to give me advice and good answers (if there are any answers)
     

Share This Page

Loading...