Is there a right of private interpretation of scripture?

If there is any honesty in you you would just fess up. You constantly harp on individuals and the convention because you do not think they are making disciples. It is broken record with you. You have questioned me about it as well. You sit at your computer screen and make judgments about lives you know nothing of. But if course you have lived near everyone well known in the evangelical Christian arena. You have lived near Barna and McCarthur and so you know all the pertinent details to make judgments on their ministries. The empty statements are yours to be sure. It is empty to say you know someone who knows some one who knows them. It is empty to say you have listened to x number of preachers from McCarthurs ministry and now you know his ministry. I am quite sure you have enough to worry about in your own little world.

 

I harp on it because Jesus gave the command to make disciples to His followers. Yet over and over people talk about how many a man led to Christ and how much money a church gives along with how many they baptized. When was the last time you heard a church give numbers that told how many disciples they made? Isn't that a better measure of who is walking with God and church growth?

It is easy to grow an organization to gain nickels and noses. That is very easy. Many books are written about the latest and greatest gimmick to do that. The tough job is to invest our lives in the lives of others. Even statistics will show the rewards of making disciples far outweight the numbers a man who is great at evangelism could win if he shared his faith 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Can you quote me where I ever said that nobody in the convention is making disciples. I know that is wrong because I associate with some who are. I also do not believe there is any convention or denomination as a whole that is making disciples. There are pastors and churches which are ungodly and there are those which are godly and intentionally making disciples. I know of one former Baptist church that trains people to make disciples who are from all over the world.

You are free to question me all you want. If I were being considered as a laeader in your church I wouild hope you would ask the tough questions. If you did not I would have little respect for you. Someone just asked me earlier on the BB what I was doing. I have gotten several emails from people on the BB asking me about discipleship and what I do. Why should we shrink from openly asking leaders about what they are doing? They are in the public eye. They must be above reproach and mature enough to handle the job. I have never forgotten the time a person in town asked me why the church I was pastoring could not keep a pastor. I asked him why he asked. What he told me was not something any pastor should hear about a church. I have friends who will not let me escape the hard questions. Since I first became a Christian I have always been acountable to someone. It keeps me doing what I should be doing and they are the people who love me most. When I was a young Christian I asked many people what they did for their devotional life because I wanted to know what I should be doing. I could tell that the majority did not like me asking them and I wondered why at first. I noticed that they were uncomfortable and walked away. That was until I talked with the president of a mission organization. It was a pleasure talking to him because he told me what he did and the importance of making disciples. He also educated me about the importance of prayer. That two hour conversation changed my life. If a Christian man is offended by someone asking him about his life then he has something to hide. Last year I met a pastor who asked me about my devotional life. A friend of mine met him and said to me that if that pastor had been his pastor when he and his wife were married he believes that he would not be divorced today.

The fact is that I spent 14 years near where they were. My inlawws only lived about 20 miles away from Barna. Peope at the church I attended knew Barna. I have some friends who are pastors and graduated from Master's Seminary. The gentleman who baptized my wife is now the dean of the school of theology at Talbot Seminary. He has written some books on discipleship that all Christians would be well advised to read. That is his main focus in theological education. I have also met some of his former students who will tell you how he impacted their lives as he did mine. I know for a fact that he makes disciples.

I can assure you that when I heard him speak while I was a student at SWBTS some of the professors expressed their disagreement opently. He was the person who helped me to do discipleship within a church context. While I was a student at SWBTS I asked some professors about discipleship and their approach and everyone of them would comment aboiut how few professors were making disciples. I asked one of them how he got started making disciples. He told me it was because of some parachruch organization materials he read. The man who taught me construction and got me staretd in business also told me that he had never made any disciples until he was 55. I asked him how he got started. He told me it was when he read some materials from another parachurch organization and met with one of the leaders. He was also a graduate of a BIOLA and had pastored for a few years. I was married at a church where the pastor met with some of the parachurch organization leaders and that is where he learned to make disciples. I pastored some churches and met only one couple who knew how to make disciples. It was because they were involved in a parachurch organization in college. For several years I have met with pastors to teach them how to make disciples. I have started discipleship groups in churches and in communities. I started discipleship groups in the chruches I pastored. So I know from experience that so many are doing little or nothing to intentionally make disciples. So much is left to chance and I believe they do not even know it. If we do not make change then pastors wil keep doing as they have always done. A former roommate of mine became a missionary in a communist country under persecution and made disciples for about 25 years there while churches were shutting down.

Too often discussing discipleship is much like a diamond expert discussing diamonds with someone who knows little or nothing about them. The diamond expert quickly knows when someone else does not know something. To tell someone about making disciples who has never made disciples is much like telling a blind person about sight. If a person has not personally made disciples they do not know what it takes and they do not experience the joy it brings. It is much like a non-Christian telling you they were offended and that Jesus is a joke. Would you agree?

I give no thought to what anyone else does unless it influences the people I disciple.

I do not always know much, but I do believe God's word when John said, "I have no greater joy than this, to hear of my children walking in the truth."

I do know of a few seminaries and Bible schools tha teach personal discipleship by doing it. Do you know of any SBC seminaries that teach discipleship by practicing it and is more than just talking about it? When I graduarted from SWBTS evangelism was talked about and we were to make two reports aboiut sharing our faith. I cannot think of anytime that same thing was done teaching the students how to make disciples. Discipleship was typically taught as being mentioned as nothing more than just a Bible study. When Jesus trained His discipoles he did much more than give them a Bible study to lead of work through.

 

I believe the greatest threat to Christianity is promoting nickerls and noses while ignorance increases within the churches. I go to a Bible believeing Baptist church and I would be surprised if anyone knows who Mohler is. Yet they continue to reach peope and teach the Bible.

I cannot imagine any threat that Holloway would pose to anyone who knows their Bible. I would be more concerned about making disciples and teaching people the Bible. The SBC has had some very good courses that people in churches can take to help them know their Bible better. When was the last time you have seen them used in a church?

 

gb93433

condemn numbers but ask for those same numbers,
gb93433

Fact is, you've always posted hate for anything sbc.

apparently you beleive christians sould never point out a false teacher, we just let them keep teaching anti bible junk, and yes, there are people who follow them, this mans whole church, benny hinn and his like. Not everyone is as perfect in knowledge as you, and no one was saved perfect knowing everything, there are people at all levels. but you can't imagine this being true, because you are obviously at the top of them all.
This includes you pointing out to everyone on this board what you think is wrong with what they say they beleive,, according to you,, you also have no business doing this. Glad you have come to this conclusion, and we will no longer see you violate your own convictions on this. I hope others will remember you said this.

 

Read the two sermons at http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm

Then see if you can say the same thing.

Just because we are at different levels gives no excuse for not doing as Jesus commanded and leading others to do the same thing. That is the responsibility and blessings of leading others.

 

Having a right to interpret the way you want (soul liberty) is one thing, and "private interpretation" is another. Private interpretation is that the Bible has a special meaning just for you and that the meaning might differ for others.

The meaning of God's word is the same for everyone but can be applied differently (I am not saying that a passage cannot have more than one meaning - but those meanings would be the same for everyone today). There is no private, esoteric meaning hidden away in scripture that varies from person to person, and God's word is not meant as a private book that people can read any way they desire.

 

This doesn't sound like a Baptist belief to me. Catholics believe that they don't have the right to interpret the Bible for themselves. For hundreds of years they didn't even have Bibles to read and masses were conducted in Latin. Is that what you want?

 

We must remember that the masses could not read. Only the educated aristocracy could read. That amounted to about 2% Things are very different today. Everywhere the same thing was true until people could read.

 

There's a link to Mohler's blog on the SB Seminary web page. How can you say that it isn't sponsored by the SBC?

http://www.sbts.edu/blogs/

 

COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D.

The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), to search out and try heretics. Twenty of the forty-five articles decreed by the Council dealt with heretics and heresy. It ruled in part:

Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.

Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.

 

Remember just a few years ago when some of the leaders spoke out against blogs? I guess Mohler ignored them too.

 

First what time period are speaking of?
Second back that statement up with facts?
Why would you assume that the masses of people (of whatever nation you are speaking of) cannot read. This is a perpetuated lie that is unsubstantiated.

 

Doesn't the SBC own and control the SBTS? If not then who does? These are the blogs on the SBTS Blog page which has a link from the home page.

Featured Bloggers
• Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
• Dr. Russell Moore
Deans
• Dr. Denny Burk
• Dr. Chuck Lawless
Professors
• Dr. Greg Brewton
• Dr. Duane Garrett
• Dr. Jim Hamilton
• Dr. Michael Haykin
• Dr. J.D. Payne
• Dr. David Sills
• Dr. David Sills (Reaching and Teaching)
• Mr. Carl Stam
• Dr. Hershael York
Schools & Organizations
• Boyce College
• CBMW

Centers
• Biblical Church Growth (Dr. Chuck Lawless)
• Andrew Fuller Center (Dr. Michael Haykin)
• Dehoney Center for Urban Ministry Training

All of the people are either professors, deans, or the President of SBTS. Does this look like a coincidence. I see no links to the city of Louisville or the state of Kentucky. The ACLU dpoesn't appear here. Clearly, these blogs are supported by the SBTS and representative of the thinking of the SBTS. These professors wouldn't be there if they weren't in lock step with Mohler's views and Mohler represents the SBTS.

 

NT & OT

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=hDe&q=education+in+ancient+Israel&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Before you make such an assumption next time at least try to go to www.google.com first.

 

It reminded me of the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGCJ46vyR9o

 

In the OT the Hebrews knew how to read and write; they kept the records, the revelation of God. There is other evidence of ancient writings from other nations, especially from Egypt and Babylon. We have the Hamurabbi Code, ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics, the Rosetta Stone, all evidence of literate ancient societies.

In the NT, when Alexander the Greek conquered the known world of his time, the mark that he left on the world was literacy. Even the slaves could read. Onesimus was a runaway slave who was able to read, whom Paul leads to the Lord, and sends back to his friend, Philemon. When Christ was born, he was born into a very educated world. Peter, John, and James were all fisherman. Look at the books that they wrote. They were called ignorant and unlearned, and yet their books were very profound. They were simple fishermen. And Levi was simply a tax collector, a hated publicman. He was also very educated. These men knew Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and probably Chaldee. They were very literate. Most of the society knew most of these languages. The Greeks at least knew their own language and Latin.
Alexander gave the people literacy--Greek.
The Romans gave the people transportation--they built roads.
The Jews gave the people the Scriptures--the OT in both Hebrew and Greek.

Surely the "fulness of time had come" when Christ was born.