Is There a Sin too BIG for God Not Forgive

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, May 13, 2010.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    We seem to be beating around the bush with asking about the sin of divorce and remarriage. It is not the intent of this post to replace the great PM on divorce and remarriage especially in a pastor. I just couldn't help but want to know what other sins [other than blasphemy] are too BIG for God to Forgive?

    IMHO, I firmly believe that there is only one sin that God will not, and can not pardon man or woman from and that sin is BLASPHEMY against the Holy Spirit!

    SEE: Matthew 12:31; Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10; 1 John 5:16; 1 John 5:17 (Amplified Bible)

    Blasphemy is the BIG SIN, and it is unpardonable. So, what other sin(s) can God not forgive/pardon us from and completely, totally, and forever restore us to our standing before Him, prior to committing that sin ???

    BTW, it is my humble, and prayerful discernment that - and I'm not saying that there are not numerous ways to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - the unpardonable sin [in my book] is to not allow the conviction of the Holy Spirit to turn your heart to God, through the work of His Son's death and resurrection.

    I base this solely on the fact that the main purpose of the Hoy Spirit is to convict man of his sin, his need for God's forgiveness, and to repent of sin.

    Matthew 12:31-32 - "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy (every evil, abusive, injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things) can be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit shall not and cannot be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Spirit, the Holy One, will not be forgiven, either in this world and age or in the world and age to come."

    One key verse is found in, I Thessalonians 1:4-6(Amplified Bible) = "[O] brethren beloved by God, we recognize and know that He has selected (chosen) you; For our [preaching of the] glad tidings (the Gospel) came to you not only in word, but also in [its own inherent] power and in the Holy Spirit and with great conviction and absolute certainty [on our part]. You know what kind of men we proved [ourselves] to be among you for your good. And you [set yourselves to] become imitators of us and [through us] of the Lord Himself, for you welcomed our message in [spite of] much persecution, with joy [inspired] by the Holy Spirit."

    AND, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 - "But we, brethren beloved by the Lord, ought and are obligated [as those who are in debt] to give thanks always to God for you, because God chose you from the beginning as His first-fruits (first converts) for salvation through the sanctifying work of the [Holy] Spirit and [your] belief in (adherence to, trust in, and reliance on) the Truth."

    I would welcome your comments, feedback, and more importantly, input as to my opinion on just what sin is beyond eternal reproach, in the eyes of God. And, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how God can't forgive divorce and remarriage, especially if that is not blasphemy, in the context of the Scripture. Of course, I would appreciate your limiting your responses to what the Word says, and not wrangling and doing a ton of spiritual/mental gymnastics to make your view fit into what the Gospel actually says the unpardonable sin is.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
    #1 righteousdude2, May 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2010
  2. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    <sarcasm>Now Pastor Paul. You know you've been around long enough to know the difference between earthly consequences and spiritual ones. If'n you can't keep your marriage together, the EARTHLY consequence is that you don't get to preach. Doesn't matter what God says, cause man has said it long enough to stick! Nor does it matter the reason the divorce occurred. If you can't keep a marriage together, how can you be expected to keep a church together? Really!! How dare you even suggest such a thing?

    Other sins that are to big to escape earthly consequences: Drug/alcohol use, politickin'(you KNOW you can't be a politician and a preacher too!), having a wild child that does any of the big three: fornication, drinking/smoking or laziness, being found down to the local bingo or dance hall come Friday night or any sort of lawlessness. Men only get one chance to judge someone so's they can make themselves feel better and you can be sure they ain't gonna forgive no consequences they've set no matter what God has done. That whole bearing up one another thingy in scripture? Well that was one of those things that was added into the scripture by some dishonest scribe. God didn't really mean it! <end sarcasm>
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Paul,

    Isn't it a bit disingenuous or at least a distortion to say that those who believe a divorced man cannot be a pastor do so because they believe divorce and remarriage is unforgivable? I know a lot of people who believe that divorced men cannot be pastors, but not one of them believes that they are unforgivable.

    I think you have set up a bit of a straw man here, and arguing against something that no one believes. (It's unfortunately all too common here.)

    Whether you agree or disagree, the prohibition on divorced men being pastors is the historic position of the church, so far as I can tell, and I have never heard anyone argue against that being the historical position of the church.

    Furthermore, whether you agree or disagree, most people who believe that divorced men cannot be pastors do not do so out of a difference about what forgiveness is, or a difference about God's grace and salvation. They do so for reasons that are attached to the Bible itself.

    Actually, the unpardonable sin in Scripture is never described in these terms. The unpardonable sin in Scripture is attributing the exorcisms of Jesus by the power of the Spirit to the power of Satan. That is the only scriptural identification of the unpardonable sin (as you can tell from the very passage you quote--Matt 12).

    I am curious as to what scriptural basis there is for saying this is the "main purpose" of the Spirit. It is certainly one of his roles, but main purpose?

    Can you identify for us anyone who actually believes that God can't forgive divorce and remarriage. I, for one, would like to read their arguments so that I can address what they actually say. Please give us a link to a post or posts here at the BB where someone says this, or some link to an article elsewhere, or a book or some such where someone says that divorce and remarriage are unforgivable so that we can read their arguments and address them.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Are you saying that there is no difference between them? Should a repentant murderer be let out of his life sentence in prison? Should a repentant embezzler be absolved of his responsibility to repay?

    I wonder how you would interact with 1 Tim 3:5 where Paul says, "1 Timothy 3:5 but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)"

    What do you think God means by that, given your statement above.

    Are you suggesting that "bearing up one another" means that no sins have temporal consequences? Does that mean that when a child disobeys and then says, "I am sorry" that we should not punish the child? Does that mean that when a man rapes a lady and apologizes that there should be no consequences for it? Again, what exactly are you trying to say?
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    There are sins that disqualify a man from special areas of service to the Body. That has nothing to do with "forgiveness".

    (I personally do not believe some instances of divorce/married to a divorcee are disqualifying, but that is for the other thread.)
     
  6. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
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    This is just very well put, excellent point!

    Disqualifying sins have to do with leadership. They don't have to do with salvation. You can be put of out church leadership and still firmly maintain your salvation.
     
  7. Crucified in Christ

    Crucified in Christ
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    Paul,

    It is very important that we distinguish what the Lord states. You seem to treat blasphemy and blasphemy against the spirit as the same sin- i.e. your quote that "Blasphemy is the BIG SIN, and it is unpardonable." Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not simply blasphemy; we know this because our Lord told us so. In fact, you have provided the scripture; our Master states that blasphemies will be forgiven ("every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven men...), but the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.

    So what is this sin? Look at the context of the passage. The religious leaders desired to discredit Jesus, but it seemed that His stature continued to grow despite their opposition (of course, most were not following by faith as our Lord continually pointed out). They finally come to a point where the crowds are openly asking if this could be the promised Messiah. If He is not, how then would you describe His many miracles? The religious leaders, needing an answer to the clear wisdom of the question, attribute the work of the Lord to Satan.
    They claim that it is by the power of Beelzebub that He works these miracles. The Lord points out the silliness of the charge, before making His declaration about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I believe that what He was getting at is that when you get to the point that you can no longer distinguish light from darkness (the power of the Holy Spirit from the power of the evil one) than you are so blinded that you will never see. We know that the Scriptures warn us not to harden our hearts, that we should not allow our ears to be deafened, or our necks to become stiff. When we ignore the Spirit, we become blinded to His work. When it gets so bad that you can no longer distinguish between light and darkness at all, there is no hope left for you.

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
    Isaiah 5:20
     
  8. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff
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    Is forgiveness the same as permisiveness?
     

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