Is there a strict order how to get saved?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I just listened to a sermon and the pastor said that repentance has to come first.
    He said there are half christians which are miserable because they never repented. They are far from the world but not close enough to God to enjoy him.
    Do you really think that everything follows a strict order and unless it happens exactly like this it's not real? Maybe before you can even get saved you have to be confronted with your sins and you have to realize that you're a lost sinner and then you can accept Jesus. But what if you want to accept Jesus but don't feel convicted of your sins?
    I mean in my case everything there was no strict order. I had noone who preached to me. It would be so much easier for me if everything could be nailed down to 1 exact day where somebody preached to me an then I accepted Jesus and know that it all happened on this 1 day. This would make everything more tangible. But in my case everything was different. This is stupid somehow. How do I know if everything was done correctly and if I even had the right faith?
    The bible says faith comes from the word of God. But I hadn't anybody who read to me from it. I dont even know if I ever read the gospels in school. Maybe I heard snippets from it. But I still had this feeling that there's something about Jesus. But if real faith can only come from the bible and I had noone who read the bible to me and preached to me then what if this proves that this feeling which I had isn't real faith and if it's not real faith then everything is useless.
    If everything had happened on 1 day and if I had directly noticed a noticable change then everything would be much more real. But in my case it all happened over a period of time. I also didn't feel convicted in the beginning. What if the fact that it didn't really happen in a certain order proves that God had nothing to do with it? This makes me feel insecure about everything. I mean how do I know that God really had something to do with all these circumstances?
    When I listen to a sermon and the pastor says that it has to be like this and in my case it wasn't like this then this scares me. How can I ever find peace this way? This way I'll always become scared and start to question everything. What if this is simply the result of it and I'm simply lacking the most important things? Maybe you cannot even become saved when you don't know all these things and when you have not been preached to and been convinced that you're a sinner.
    In the beginning I didn't even know that you have to accept Jesus. I thought that God's on my side because I had a problem and prayed to God and asked him to help me and also promised to become a better person and I believe God helped me and I was happy. And then I thought that God is on my side since he helped me. I didn't know about all these things. A few months later I spent more time with christianity because of health issues which made me focus more on death and the afterlife and then I went to christian forums and asked questions and also got a bible and then I remembered all these things about Jesus dying for our sins and I became scared that maybe I had sinned too much and that God is done with me. I also thought that if I died I would have all these bad deeds but no good deeds on my account. I had many misconceptions. But I also didn't know it any better. And then I thought about what a bad person I had been and apologized for it. But when I did this I don't know if I knew that I am a sinner or not. I mean realizing that you are a sinner is not the same as knowing that you have sinned. When you realize that you are a sinner you realize that you're bad, that in you there is nothing good. I don't think that I really understood this at this time. At this time I only thought about all these big sins which I had done which I remembered. But what if this wasn't enough and in order to get saved you have to know that you are a sinner, that you're totally evil and that there is nothing good in you?
    If I had a different testimony then everything would be easier. There are simply so many things which I can think about and then ask myself if everything worked. For example not even knowing when you prayed a sinner's prayer for the first time is also stupid. I cannot even say when I did it.
    Most likely I would have done it right away but since I didn't have it and also didn't even know what such things exist I also couldn't do it. In the beginning I simply thought that I have to change and don't want to go on this way but I don't think that you can call this repentance. Maybe I would have repented if somebody had directly told me how it is but I didn't know all these things. And after this I remember that I tried to be more friendly but it didn't work. A friend of me once sent me an old email from this time where I wrote about hating people and even though I didn't want to I couldn't stop it. Somehow there are so many things which I can doubt. I don't even know when God really started to work on me. During those first months I was basically a seeker but not a christian because I didnt even know what being a christian really means.
    Having a structured, clear testimony makes everything much easier. :confused:
     
  2. Samuel Owen

    Samuel Owen
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    This is not the easiest of things to discuss on a message board, I would much rather do it in person.

    But lets take a look at the one of the two thieves, who were crucified with Christ. They both started out to ridicule him, but one of them fell under conviction this was a work of the Holy Spirit. Then he declared that Christ had done nothing wrong, but that he, and the other thief deserved their punishment this was his admission of guilt.

    His confession of Christ came when he said "Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom". He could not have done this, unless the Holy Spirit had not imparted the faith to do so to him.

    Of course he had a direct physical revelation of Jesus, something we do not have today. But the one thing we do have is what Paul spoke of in Romans: Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. KJV


    Most people come under conviction at the hearing of the Gospel, or having previous knowledge of it. Confession of sin, and repentance come next; believing Christ crucified and resurrected are a have to be, then accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior complete the process of salvation.

    Repentance cannot come until you become convicted of your sinfulness, if you do not realize your guilt how would repent, or from what would you repent. It goes like this: Conviction, confession and repentance, acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

    There is a Gospel Message on my web-site you might want to have a look at. :)
     
    #2 Samuel Owen, Dec 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2006
  3. Chemnitz

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    Simple answer, No! Anybody tells you otherwise is trying to sell you a slick load of works righteousness and doesn't understand Greek Grammar. Only one thing brings about salvation, the gift of the Gospel, not repentance or the so called "sinners prayer" anybody who can do or say these things honestly has already been saved. An unsaved person wouldn't even care. Case in point is Mr Owens here, requires that you seal the deal with an act of your own will ala "accepting" Jesus as your Lord and Savior.
     
  4. Samuel Owen

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    No, No , No. Not unless you are under coviction to do so, mechanical salvation is worse none at all. This can result in religious salvation, and a person can become self decieved. In the end some can go on thinking they are saved! when in fact they are not.

    You would be suprised how many people I have told that being saved did not mean their life was going to get better; as in their troubles would go away, they would prosper financially, their health would get better, or any of the other false promises some offer.

    When in fact the opposite would be true; a lot of your old friends will not have anything to do with you anymore, your finances may get even worse especially if you have been duping people to gain money, your health is in Gods hands, he may or not extend your life according to his purpose.

    If you are trying to imply that God just comes along and jerks people up, without their being involved you are dead wrong, and trying to twist the scriptures around in Greek! when only the Holy Spirit can reveal the truth to you, is also a deception of the Devil. :)
     
  5. Chemnitz

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    Huh? What are you responding too?
     
  6. Tom Butler

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    I don't know about a strict order of salvation, but I think there is a logical order.

    First, there is election. God chooses those whom he will save. Calvinists believe that God's choice is based on his good pleasure, but they don't know what else, if anything. Arminians (or non-Cals) believe that God's choice is based on his knowledge of who will exercise saving faith.

    In time will come regeneration (quickening, making alive), illumination, conviction, drawing, a response of repentance and faith followed by salvation.

    Non-Cals will differ on the order here. They might list illumination (exposure to the gospel) drawing, conviction, repentance, faith, regeneration (which they hold is salvation).

    Others might leave out repentance, citing faith only.

    These sequences (except election) could play out in seconds, or coujld be stretched out over time.

    Anybody else want to take a crack at the order, or pick these apart that I've listed?
     
  7. Amy.G

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    I don't know if there's any scripture that says this, but based on observation and experience, I believe it's true. Is there any scripture? :)
     
  8. Samuel Owen

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    I think that what I said above might have been also misunderstood. I did not mean to leave the impression; there were certain set in order rules to salvation.

    I have known of people, who have come to the point of realizing that there was something wrong with their lives long before they were saved. But I still say this is a work of the Holy Spirit, or else no one will condemn his actions. People tend to go right on seeing their actions as ok in their own eyes, the Scriptures even verify this.

    But without conviction, and repentance there can be no salvation. Otherwise you have to believe in Universalism (which I don't). :)
     
    #8 Samuel Owen, Dec 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2006
  9. dispen4ever

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    Please ~ this is not a topic for harsh debate.

    xdx. I don't believe in a formula. I believe that God has a plan for each of us. Some of us ignore it completely, that is, consciously or "outside of our immediate awareness" resist it. Some of us become aware of a life filled with lies, deception, lusts, adultery and experience guilt, and our life is turned around. We are "broken" and in tears. Thereafter we spend lots of time in prayer, thanking God for His mercy, and wishing we could go to everyone we have harmed in one way or another. Some of us hear a message in Sunday School, and, without any other prompting, step forward to indicate that the Holy Spirit is speaking to our heart of hearts, even if we don't know it is Him. For some it is in a church service. For others it is while watching TV. Whatever the path, the process, the procedure was, it is incredibly spiritual, producing a changed life, a person who wants to serve God in ANY capacity he sets forth. He decides, not me, Praise His Holy Name!:praying:
     
  10. Allan

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    Scripture does state from the very mouth of Christ: Unless you repent you shall ALL likewise perish. Sounds like repentence (though there is no magic words but that of the heart) is necessary for not perishing. However it is a natural part of the salvation and not something that we want but what He wants. You must acknowledge your sin as well as the seperation and judgment it brings from God while place all you belief/faith in the work of Christ that God says is suffient for the remission of sins and bringing of man to God. In other words see yourself the way God does and acknowledge it is not what God desires (or better what He hates) and believe He will do and has done ALL that is necessary for your salvation and keeping of it that He will never again look upon you as one seperated but that has come near unto and through Christ.
     
    #10 Allan, Dec 6, 2006
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  11. Marcia

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    In the Gospel of John, Jesus says over and over to believe that he was sent by God and you will be saved. No time to look all those up but it must be in at least a dozen places. He does not say to repent.

    I also think it matters what we mean by "repent." Repent means to turn away from. To believe in Christ you have to turn away from your former life, but that does not necessarily mean you understand completely that you are in sin or understand sin. I did not understand sin when I was saved. I only knew that I had been going away from God and that I would be eternally separated from Him if I did not trust in Christ as my Savior. That realization came in a matter of seconds before trusting Christ. The word "sin" was not in my head at all. In fact, it took about a year and a half for me to truly understand what sin and evil were.
     
  12. Janosik

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    Salvation is a process. This process is not finished yet. Then the result is unknown. You don't know if you are going to end up in heaven.
    The meaning of the word 'saved' is that a person became a child of God. If you are a child of God does it guarantee you a place in heaven? No, it does not.

    I would say it's not important what happens when and how fast in a person's salvation. The most important thing is the end result.
     
  13. Saint #unknown

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    Amen Allen,
    I agree, Lest ye repent ye shall all like wise perish! In order to get saved you need to come under conviction, by the foolishness of preaching are men saved! Well what is preaching? Preaching is to urge acceptance or abandonment of an idea or course of action, also the definition of preach is to deliver a sermon. What should be in these sermons is Christ crucified. Their is a logical and a certain way salvation comes.
    1. You sin- For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God

    2. Holy spirit convicts you of that sin- There is a way which seemeth right unto a man but the end therof are the ways of death and For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. also It is appointed unto all men once to die and then the judgement! What happens after the judgement well God showed us this in Revelation 20 verses 11-14 All are going to come before the judgement, the white throne and give an answer, an account of all the things they have done. Verse 15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Surely I come quickly

    3. Repentence- Lest ye repent ye shall all likewise perish Now is the day of salvation! By grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast!

    4. Salvation- Here is where you have faith that Jesus Christ will fulfill his promises.
    Titus 1:2 God cannot lie! Once you are saved he goes to prepare a place for you!
    In my father's house are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you, if it were not so I would have told you.

    5. Past this God commands us to study to show ourselves approved unto God workman that needeth not to be ashamed and to rightly divide that word of truth.
    Also we have to be ready to give a reason for the hope that is in us!
     
  14. Saint #unknown

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    Argh Yes you are saved my goodness, What does saved mean?????
    Whats is the point o man? why not stick with the sacrifices the Jews did for their sins!? what point is their in salvation if you get saved and then lose it? That is why you need to study to show yourself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed! So when Chrsit went to heaven to prepare a place for his diciples did he get their and God said oops sorry they sinned and now you don't have to prepare a place for them??? WHAT you JUST SAID is a blasphemy that is going to send people down a rong road bud! Think before thy speakest that it may be well with thee.... What was Christ point of going dieing for you sir if you were going to just lose your salvation once the flesh got ahold of you, thats a bunch of bologna losing your salvation!!! For many are called but few are chosen How many times are you chosen for salvation? once to die once to get saved! I can back this with scripture if you start up another post I dont want to do it on this one because this person was looking for the order for salvation not the eternal meaning!
     
  15. Allan

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    Ok, let us look at scripture and see if Repent is apart of that salvation where by we do not PERISH - You know like John 3:16 talks about - whosoever believes shall not perish...
    Note that Act 2:37 is speaking of salvation and the FIRST thing Peter states is to Repent - ! Where did Peter get this Idea of Repenting, well as we see in the scriptures it was from Jesus, Himself.


    I agree with you on the beginning of your explaining what Repent deals with. However, Salvation is about KNOWING you HAVE and ARE IN sin and seperated from God otherwise what need is there for salvation. You have no need to be saved when you don't know WHY you are needing salvation. Now you might not understand ALL sin or its extent but in order to be saved you MUST BE convicted of YOUR sins and realize you NEED Christ because you fail. Is that more to what you are actually refering to on that later part of your posting of not knowing...
     
  16. Allan

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    AMEN SAINT!!
    It is not a process but a moment in time that is why you must BE born agian. When the Apostles speak of salvation it is always in the Past Tense as in a done deal, period! For by grace you ARE savED through faith... Whosoever calls upon the Name of the Lord WILL be savED... For we have been savED... Did Paul and Peter and other lie?? God forbid as salvation IS NOT OF US, NOT OF WORKS but IS OF God.
    Salvation is of the Lord and not of our works nor is it some journey we are on. We are saved and the journey is that with our Saviour and Lord who will NEVER leave us nor FORSAKE us...
     
  17. Amy.G

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    Salvation 101
    John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, thatwhoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
    29 My Father, who has given them Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
    30 I and My Father are one.
     
  18. FriendofSpurgeon

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    Here are several great quotes on the topic --

    "Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation." from CRTA

    "Christian! the only thing that makes you differ from the vilest being that pollutes the earth, or from the darkest fiend that gnaws his chains in hell, is the free grace of God!" - Octavious Winslow

    "Repentance unto life can only be exercised by a soul after, and in consequence of, its regeneration by the Holy Spirit. God regenerates; and we, in the exercise of the new gracious ability thus given, repent...If genuine, it infallibly springs from regeneration and leads to eternal life" - AA Hodge
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT] ​
     
  19. Janosik

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    How do we know that one believes in Him?
     
  20. Amy.G

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    Are you unsure if you believe in Christ? It's not up to you to judge someone elses heart. Examine your own.
     

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