is this a new worship war starting?

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by nodak, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    I keep hearing folks saying the one musical form we need to avoid at times is the "gospel song."

    Doesn't matter if it is newly written, or 150 years old.

    The problem is that a "gospel song" makes clear the divide between the state of being born again, and not being born again.

    Visitors, I'm told, want to be assured everyone is on the same spiritual path, just all at different points.

    The idea of a person having to repent, believe, seek salvation, and wait for the Lord to do a work in their soul is repugnant, so we cannot sing those songs.

    Heaven help us, maybe we need to sing all gospel songs for awhile.
     
  2. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
    So what do they want us to do? Throw out the old hymns by Watts, Newton, and Cowper. I don't think so.
     
  3. jaigner

    jaigner
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm a little confused. Technically, a gospel song is a strophic hymn with a refrain. It's a creation from frontier days in which one person would sing the stanzas and the whole group would sing the refrain.

    The style endures because of the contributions of Crosby, Gabriel, Bradbury, Lowry, and the like.

    Many of these songs are theologically vapid without much substance, but most of the bad ones have been edited out of the repertoire by now.

    Or are you talking about songs that talk about the gospel? Or is this about what's commonly called Gospel music (which I think is a bad name)?

    Just curious.
     
  4. glfredrick

    glfredrick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems that someone is always trying to make this form or that form of worship a sin. I'd suggest rather that hindering any man's worship of God is the sin.
     
  5. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    What are being trashed are the old songs like those by Sankey, Cowper, Fannie Crosby, etc. And the new songs like Amazing Grace/My chains are gone.

    Anything that in any way refers to being born again, a conversion experience, being saved.

    I'm with you, Old Union Brother.

    For the life of me, seems that is one of the purposes of the church--presenting the gospel in such a way that sinner's seek for God to save them.
     
  6. glfredrick

    glfredrick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who is doing the trashing, and why do we care? They evidently do not much care about God or God's work anyway.
     
  7. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    :BangHead: Why should we fight or have war over the style of Music an individual fellowship uses in its right to Administrate the Gifts of God according to the dictates of their hearts?

    First, isn't Worship a Spiritual thing, ie., comes from the heart? So,to a certain point all the Style does is set an ambience for the Physical that allows or encourages the human Soul to Worship.

    Secondly, music is cultural, that is, some one from an Irish background may prefer Celtic flavor more that the Really Old Classic Hymns.

    A 58 year old "young" person like myself tends towards some of the slower more worshipful Hillsongs and soft electric guitars. For many of you that style would be a distraction to Worshipping from the heart. But, for me, it works.

    So why should we fight over this.

    Unless, of course, I try to come to your church and force a partcular style on you?

    Or, you try to take away from me that which inspires me to Worship.


    Yes, by all means let's talk about lyrics.

    I saw a thread on the best Hymn Lyrics... But, I didn't see one on the Worst Hymn Lyrics. :saint:

    Now why is it that we can trash the lyrics of young immature Christians making an honest attempt to use Music to Worship their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...

    But, we dare not even think about touching the Old Hymns?

    Even then, is it really worth fighting over?
     
  8. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    0
  9. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    SpiritualMadMan--this time you may be living up to your name--tongue firmly in cheek, of course.

    It isn't a discussion of style of music at all.

    It is something I hear in SS, sometimes an offhand comment by our wonderful (and he is) pastor that he has read, something I hear on what little Christian radio I can sometimes pick up.

    It is about old music, new music, older new music, what have you. It isn't picking on those young in the faith trying as best they can to worship.

    It is a TEACHING that music that refers to a definite point in time when one was or can be saved is WRONG. It is a TEACHING that ALL are on the "spiritual path" and we should just accept some folks are not saved YET--they are "worshipping pre-Christians" and that even hinting there is a definite point when salvation occurs is counterproductive with these folks.

    It is a TEACHING that these songs are wrong headed because they are what is sometimes called "turn or burn" theology.

    Clearer?
     
  10. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    Clearer? Maybe. :)

    Two things caught my eye though...

    "worshipping pre-Christians" I wouldn't think this is as much a problem in Conservative Circles as in churches that focus on Worship.

    But, as I see it, we were created to Worship God (whether Saved or not) and when we do what we are created to do we feel good about ourselves. So, the term "worshipping pre-Christians" has the conotation to me that we are not doing the second thing adequately.

    And, that is to insist that people *know* they are saved. And, I think that you should have a fairly clear date when that happened.

    Implied in all this is that I believe people can attend church and Worship and still go to a Hell prepared for the devil and his angels.

    But, I am more than likely not being very clear?
     
  11. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,603
    Likes Received:
    44
    Wise words from Dr. Peter Masters, Metropolitan Tabernacle Baptist Church, London:

    http://www.metropolitantabernacle.o.../C-H-Spurgeon-on-the-Present-Financial-Crisis
     
  12. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    I have to ask if we keep the worship at the level "pre Christians" can comfortably worship at, who or what is being worshipped.
     
  13. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with the main point of your post, but "Amazing Grace" a new song??? The words were written by John Newton (1725-1807), and the tune to which it's now usually sung was composed in 1831. :confused: Obviously both words and tune were new at one time, but not now.
     
  14. Bro. James

    Bro. James
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,633
    Likes Received:
    14
    Making a joyful noise

    Cain's sacrifice was unacceptable--he did it his way. God rejected Cain's offering, telling him he had sin at his doorstep. See also the religious ones who Jesus rejects, saying He never knew them, Mt. 7:21-23.

    Most of us have a religious practice which conforms to our lifestyle instead of a lifestyle which conforms to true religion--undefiled. We are conformed to the world including on Sunday--having a form of godliness, but in fact, denying the power there of.

    Church is not entertainment of the flesh. Let's give God another round of applause. Why is there so much lust of flesh, lust of eyes and pride of life in the world of Christendom?

    It is no wonder, Satan himself is become an angel of light--along with his ministers.

    "God is a Spirit, they that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth..." We seem to think emotional fuzzy feelings and sincerity are spiritual and have not a clue as to what The Truth might be.

    We are reaping the consequences of circus attractions and repeat after me salvation in the churches. Time to repent and do the first works.

    Has anyone put John, Chapter 3 to music? Something like: You must be born again--from above.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
    #14 Bro. James, Jan 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 28, 2011
  15. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    *If* we are *really* worshipping, Paul seems to say that there will be no question as to a persons true state before God...

    1Co 14:25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"


    We dare not compromise "Family Time" because it makes a seeker "uncomfortable" because then the family suffers.

    Besides, is "Family Time" for the lost or the Family?

    That is *where* are we supposed to meet, greet and win the lost?

    When we have guests in our homes do we fail to offer Grace over the meal?

    Do we fail to ask them to go on the porch if they have to smoke?

    Do we measure our words at home to the same extent as we must on the job?

    No being "Seeker Sensitive" is for **outside** the church, not within.


    Of course, if we fail to mingle and speak up outside our homes and churches then it's gonna be kinda hard to meet them to win them...

    My $0.02 worth :D
     
  16. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Messages:
    2,734
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd say we are majoring on minors and forgetting to keep the main thing, the main thing. Mainly JESUS!


    But, as I said earlier styles and forms are "agents" to assist Worship and should never get in the way of Worship.

    Our modern Church services sometimes include Worship...

    But, just because we go to a Church Service does not mean that we have Lifted Jesus up in Awe and Thanksgiving to Worship Him...
     
  17. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sounds like some people need to be smacked upside the heads with the knowledge that the truth will ALWAYS be offensive to those that wish to deny it!

    I get offended when I come across a truth in the Bible that proves me wrong on a point. It makes me MAD for a little while because I don't like being wrong and having to go admit it, apologize if I'd been wrong, and admit to my kids that I made a mistake and taught them something that wasn't true.

    If the truth can still upset me and I love Christ, how much more will it upset people who don't?

    You can't be honest without offending people, so you gotta choose between right and wrong. The truth whispered by a child in the spirit of truth and love will roar in the ears of an unbeliever and offend them. Trying to take away "the offensiveness" is just dumb. All that usually ends up doing is taking away the truth, cuz that's all that's really offending anyone.
     
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    8
    Amen to that.

    This new obsession with being relevant to lost people is wicked, imo. Well meaning people embrace this obsession but the obsession itself is deadly.

    We sing for Him- not them!
     
  19. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Phoenix has a new museum of music and they did a great job on it. The displays are arranged by geographical area starting with Africa and ending with Europe and North America. I think every existing nation had a display.

    Geographically was basically historically. The southern African nations all sounded the same to me. All percussion, no tunes. As we progress north, some very basic strings and flutes were added, no tunes. No harmony. Everything unison until we get to southern Europe. In other words, the more civilized the country, the more complex and tuneful the music.

    The modern history of North America has reversed the process. We started out with complex European music. Then popular music added Blues, which was mostly solo music? Jazz was as tuneful and complex as European music. Some, more so. Then came Rock and Roll which still had nice tunes. The modern "rap" garbage is pure uncivilized African noise . . . no tune, no notes. Music for the deaf?

    But it fits the mental skills of the modern trash generation. For an example of trash class, watch "Judge Judy." Every person who comes before her is trash class. I watch it to conform my prejudices.
     
  20. glfredrick

    glfredrick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is a new arrangement:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbe7OruLk8I&feature=related

    Some churches have the gall to play it with electric instruments and drums. How DARE they do such a thing... :wavey:

    Of course, I'm saying that tongue in cheek. Most "traditional" church goers would faint if they heard the music in our church. We either write or arrange almost every piece our worship team plays into our own style, which is then performed (with congregational participation) during our Sunday gathered.

    Here's a taste of our worship team:

    "Reveal Your Love"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7Q0KNGqtJ8&feature=related

    "Crippled Soul"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXW9PlLh7go&feature=related



    A few Christmas offerings below:

    Original Christmas song, "Amen Amen"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn1jPsHrCLI&feature=related

    "Hosana in the Highest"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA0k7Rr0XmM&feature=related

    "What Child is This"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzs24eR8rg0&feature=related

    Click any album to hear previews and entire songs. Just click the play button.
    http://sojournmusic.bandcamp.com/album/before-the-throne
     

Share This Page

Loading...