Is this fair?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Mar 29, 2008.

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  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    There was a guy that was late for his rent on his apartment for the month.
    He had no money to pay it so a friend offered to pay it for him.
    But the guy having some pride did not want to accept charity.
    So he refused the friends offer to help him.

    The friend then went to the land lord directly and paid the bill for the rent.
    The land lord was naturally happy to receive the money but now the land lord has found out that the tenant refused the money so now he is going back to the tenant and requiring the money from the tenant even though the friend has already paid in full the bill.

    Is that fair?
    Can the land lord get away with that legally?
    Doesn't seem like he could to me.
    Perhaps there is a lawyer here that could explain that to me.
     
  2. webdog

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    Your analogy dealing with the atonement is flawed, and doesn't relate to how salvation works in the least.
     
  3. Joe

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    What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
     
  4. exscentric

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    "What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?" Surely you misunderstand, what is the difference between an orange?
     
  5. Dale-c

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    Do you not believe there was a penalty to be paid? A debt to be satisfied?
     
  6. Outsider

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    There is also eternal life to consider. In order to inherit the kingdom, we must repent, believe (Faith) and be born again.
    It sounds to me like you have issues with the Lord and they way He does things. You may want to talk to Him about it.
     
  7. tinytim

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    Webdog is right.. it would have been closer if the landlord would have paid it himself. But if the tenant would refuse to accept the landlord's payment and went his own way, that is the tenant's fault.. .not the landlord's.
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    It appears Dale is trying to justify his beliefs of limited atonement using deceit.

    He did not say this was a hypothetical story, but rather led people to believe it actually happened.

    He is really grasping. Scripture refutes his belief and he just can't accept it.

    A landlord would not have kept the money first given him and demanded the same payment to be made again.

    Sure am glad the price paid by Christ was nothing like the story concocted in this thread by Dale.

    Christ paid the ultimate sacrifice for all, not some. Some choose not to accept benefit of the payment. It is not Christ's fault.
     
  9. Dale-c

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    I totally agree. I have never disputed this and I apologize if I gave that impression.
    There will not be one person in heaven that did not believe.
     
  10. Dale-c

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    BUt Tim, the land lord does not pay the tenant. The tenant pays the land lord.

    The tenant can refuse the benefits of the payment. People can reject Christ.
    They do it all the time.
     
  11. Outsider

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    What about infants that die? Do they believe and have faith?

    This is what I have been saying, Christ paid for everybody's "Original sin". So in truth, the tenant doesn't have an understanding that his friend paid the landlord. The landlord doesn't require him to re-pay that months rent. It has been satisfied.
     
  12. Dale-c

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    I have no idea.
    I have been unable to find anything in scripture to answer this question.
    I have discussed it with people and at the end I have to just say that I simply do not know.
    I totally agree here! I heard an athiest today that did not believe that Jesus even existed. Not even as a normal human in history.

    I agree here as well.
    Why would God the Father (the land lord in the theoretical story) Require payment once again from the unbeliever (the tenant) if the Christ (the friend) had already paid the penalty for their sin (the rent in the story)?
    If God the father pours out His wrath on a man and sends him to hell then what sins is the man paying for if ALL his sins were already paid for on the cross?
     
  13. LeBuick

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    As I first started reading I was wondering why this wansn't in the humor section.

    Wasn't for Webdog I'd of missed the point all together.
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

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    The man who goes to hell is not paying for his sins. They have been paid for already. They wer paid for at Calvary.

    Jesus paid it all, all to Him we owe.

    I am sorry you do not belieive just how far reaching Christ's love is.

    They go to hell because they choose to go to hell.
    They go to hell because they do not accept Christ and the sacrifice He paid for their Salvation.
    They go to hell because they love darkness rather than light.
    They go to hell because their name is not written in the Lamb's book of life.
     
  15. Outsider

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    This is the way I see it Dale.
    Christ did more than Die on the cross. He also was resurrected from the dead.
    One pays for sin while the other gives eternal life.

    He paid for the penalty of original sin for everyone.
    When we commit our own sin, not because of the sin of Adam, but our own transgression, it is because of unbelief.
    In order to have eternal life, we must believe.
    If we believe we will repent.
    If we believe and repent, God will save us from the penalty of OUR sin (Not Adam's original sin, it has already been satisfied). This is not a double payment.
    The Lord will born us again and seal us with His Holy Spirit.
    I believe in the "Age of Accountability". They are covered by the work of Christ. He paid for their sin (Original Sin) and they are guiltless.
    Consider this:
    Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it

    Here we see the children in Israel getting to enter the promised land even though Israel was being disobedient and not trusting God. They got to go because of their age, they didn't have the knowledge of good and evil.

    Exodus 30:14-16 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls. And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

    Notice, those under the age of twenty didn't have to pay the "Atonement money". Why not? I am not saying it is the age of 20, just pointing out that God has covered (Paid for) all children.
     
    #15 Outsider, Mar 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2008
  16. Steven2006

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    Since we are doing analogy's here is mine.

    Say you are going to a baseball game. You invite a friend and tell him it will be your gift to him, all he has to do is come. You instruct him that you will meet him there. You instruct him that you will leave his ticket at the gate paid in full waiting to be picked up. He decides that he doesn't want to bother and go because he doesn't truly believe that you would really pay for the tickets. He just doesn't have enough faith in what you promised him. You go to the game and his seat sits empty because he never picked up the prepaid ticket.

    My questions, was the ticket not paid for even though never redeemed at the ticket booth? Could he not have just gone to the game and gotten in if he only believed and had faith in what you had promised? Did he miss out on going to the game even though the price of his seat had been paid for?
     
  17. Don

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    Last analogy was closer. I used something similar, talking about movie theater tickets; when I asked the young lady if she'd accept the free ticket, she was very adamant about saying, "No, I want to pay for it myself."
     
  18. Dale-c

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    You have got to be kidding.
    So you are saying that God is unjust?
    Wow.
    He punishes people who have their sins paid for?


    Now that is just stupid. Nobody chooses to go to hell.
    They may think they can work there way to heaven.
    they may deny the existence of God.
    They may not even believe there is a literal hell.
    BUt once they are there, it is not what they want. And if they had no sin to keep them there then God would be unjust in punishing them.

    I agree but isn't this a sin?
    I agree here as well but isn't this a sin?

    And why is it not in the lambs book of life?
     
  19. Dale-c

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    What?
    Ok, your view of God's Love:

    Christ dies for all sin ever commited but leaves it up to sinfull man to choose knowing that there is no gurantee that ANYONE will ever actually choose because He is too "loving" to make someone go to heaven. He would rather love them to hell. Sounds like a nice love there.

    My view:

    Christ does everything for His own glory.
    He died and paid the complete penalty for His sheep who are then drawn to Christ and repent and believe.
    God does not lose ONE that He sets out to save.
    All whom He loves in this way go to heaven.
     
  20. Dale-c

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    Steven, this analogy is great to a point but we have to remember something:
    This person could not then have to pay for that seat. That particualr seat could not be paid for twice.
    Also, we don't have a choice on skipping out on eternity.
    We have to either go to one place or the other.
    Sending a man to hell is the wrath of God for the sins of that man.
    For God to punish a man, the man must have sins that have not been paid for.
     
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