Is this Prevenient Grace?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by InTheLight, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. InTheLight

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    When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he frees him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good.
     
  2. agedman

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    Remember to always place the "prevenient / preceding grace" as occurring PRIOR to conversion, not following it.
     
  3. Benjamin

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    So, why must a distinction be made between God's grace being offered ("PRIOR") on the bases of whether conversion has occurred or not, - if not a self-serving argument for those who would deny their volitional ability to genuinely respond to God's influences of grace?

    Does this grace proceed conversion?:

    (Tit 2:11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
     
  4. agedman

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    The question was asked in the title of the OP as to what was "preceding grace" in comparison to the statement of the OP.

    The answer was directed toward that end, and not to defending or refuting the term. That was done on another thread.
     
  5. Benjamin

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    Oh, I thought the Op question reverted back to a question of comparison concerning the timing of volitional faith.

    Silly me! :)
     
  6. InTheLight

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    So, like this:

    When God translates a sinner into the state of grace, he frees him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good.
     
  7. agedman

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    John Wesley and others consider(ed) that prevenient grace is (was) given to all humankind, and therefore the ability as free moral agents with innate human freedom of will could express choice in accepting or rejecting salvation.

    So it follows that your definition would fit.
     
  8. Internet Theologian

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    #8 Internet Theologian, Nov 15, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  9. Internet Theologian

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    Not at all brother. The quote is from the WCoF. See the above post. It is not his definition and it is not speaking of prevenient grace.
     
  10. InTheLight

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    Actually, the quote is from the London Confession of Faith of 1689.

    Yes, it is speaking of prevenient grace. I'm following your lead and labeling it as I see it.

    You know, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
     
  11. robustheologian

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    That quote speaks of regeneration (the changing of the person by removing the resistance to faith) and the 1689 London Confession of Faith is (like the Westminster Confession) a Reformed confession of faith...Reformed Baptist but Calvinistic nonetheless.
     
  12. InTheLight

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    OK, so it's the Holy Spirit convincing and convicting people of their need for a savior, enabling them to come to faith in Jesus. Do you disagree with my statement?

    Correct.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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  14. agedman

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    The basic difference between the Calvinistic and Arminian consideration of "preceding / prevenient grace"is the Arminian consider that ALL humankind have been given the "prevenient grace" and therefore one's the OWN free will and volition can choose or reject or accept Salvation.

    The Calvinist (those who hold to a prevenient grace) do not place the humankind in any manner as capable, but that God gives BOTH the faith and grace as a package unit in which the one whom the Father has given to the Son will respond in belief.

    It may seem like a small item, however simply put, the one places humankind as free to choose and ultimately, therefore, free to later loose, and the other has one chosen and therefore never un - chosen.

    What grows from the views impacts who one also will come to view such matters as non- Lordship or Lordship salvation, repentance, conviction, works, OSAS, and so forth.

    It must also be stated that some who hold the "doctrines of Grace" do not consider that there is any Scripture support of "preceding grace" because those chosen will come and because the grace is uniquely a part of the faith - unseperable. For the reader, this is what I personally hold as valid.
     
  15. robustheologian

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    It's really close...especially the "enabling them to come to faith" part. I would refer to it as the Holy Spirit making it possible for people to come to faith in Jesus Christ, by means of convincing and conviction. But it seems like we're both on the same page.
     
  16. robustheologian

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  17. robustheologian

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    Calvinists don't (or at least logically shouldn't) hold to a doctrine of prevenient grace.
     
  18. InTheLight

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    Yes, agreed. I just don't call this process regeneration. <shrugs>
     
  19. robustheologian

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    I'm glad to hear you agree. I had gathered from past posts of yours that you were against Calvinism.
     
  20. robustheologian

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    I guess I was wrong.
     

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