Is this really worship?

Mike can you be more specific as to what your issue really is with this song?

 

Yeah Mike... I'm not quite catching your problem... JK!

 

The problem with most (not all) modern CCM and even over half of the praise songs and choruses is that that they are too general. These songs could be used for more than just one religion even or from in boyfriend/girlfriend situations for teens. If you think about the band P.O.D., everyone thought that they were Christian for a good several years until they slowly revealed that they were actually more Rastafarian. (Very interesting religion by the way.)

I believe that Jesus needs to be put back into worship songs. We're slowly weeding Him out.

 

Well, I may have just been speculating but I just find too much evidence for them to be Rasta, esp. their own quotes. Also, most churches and Christian radio stations have removed them from their lists.

-David

(Sry this is off topic.)

 

Of course it's worship....

....some people really really love base jumping....

There are a few Hillzfingz songs I don't mind, this sure aint one of them


I think the best Hillz related song was Geoff Bullock and David Reidy's chorus Blessing Honour.

Blessing, honour, glory to the Lamb
Holy, righteous, worthy is the Lamb

Death could not hold Him down
For He is risen
Seated upon the throne
He is the Lamb of God

If only they were all up to that standard

 

i agree with MikeMcK. that song... is it really glorifying to God? you would think it a country song untill you read more and then it finally mentions something about God. i often think of the radion stations KLove or 100.7. If someone who isn't a Christian turned to those stations would they think that the music on 100.7 or KLove Christian music Godly or worldly? My mom likes to listen to 100.7. I'll be in the car with her and a song will come on and i'll listen to it and think, "what does this have to do with God?" it saddens me. sure they through in something about God loving you or how hes always there for you but the rest isnt about God. not all the songs are like that i know. i just dont listen nor adore that kind of music.

 

It reminds me of "In The Garden", except "In The Garden" only mentions God one time.
My Jesus I Love Thee, Sweet Hour of Prayer...all songs that deal with the emotional aspects of our relationship with God.
It's amazing how God can be so awesome, so holy, so big, so far away, so close, controlling a storm, holding my hand.
It evokes many different emotions. Yes, some are the mushy kind that give you the warm fuzzies. God manages to get involved with all of my emotions. I don't block any part of because "God shouldn't be a part of that part of my life".
Whether it's the kind that makes you want to throw yourself at his mercy or the kind that lets you know you have a friend, nobody should be mocked or degraded for writing about a certain part of their lives or emotions that God has touched...like was done to the author of the posted song.

 

I think the problem comes more from this sort of song being the entirety of a church's music ministry. If its coupled with other, deeper, and more spiritually uplifting songs it might not be all that bad.
But Gina, our problem here is in the trend that CCM seems to be going in. The direction is all towards the emotions, without much thought towards the spiritual aspects. When a church/person has a constant diet of only emotional songs it doesn't open the person's spirit up to God's leading...UNLESS it is through an emotional appeal.
On many places throughout this board it is being lamented that so often preachers are turning towards an EMOTIONAL appeal, yet we come into the music area here and the music which is almost purely an "emotional appeal" is the kind which most people here prefer.
IMO, this music issue is a HUGE part of why preachers are finding they have to give an emotional appeal ALONE in order to get any sort of response from their people.

Yes, emotions obviously play a part, and I don't think we ever ought to tell God to "stay out of them", as you sort of said you think we do. But emotions are not to lead our spirit.

 

I hear and understand your point Bapmom, and I'm wondering if perhaps some people here may not understand the concept of CCM.

CCM doesn't claim to be all hymnal music, or all praise music, or the like. It is music with a Christian base to it. Think of it like "Little House on the Prairie" isn't the Bible, but it's a Christian book.
There are different flavors, styles, and levels of depth. Some are for entertainment, some are for praise, some are simply to provide a decent alternative to wordly music for those who may enjoy hearing instruments played that were invented after the stone age.

There's a neat place on the web called Wikipedia. Here is a direct link to their definition of CCM. Please read it and let me know if that helps you understand what it is and is not supposed to be. Wikipedia

 

I will look at your link later when I have time.......almost time to get ready for church.....

But I wanted to say, too, Gina, I understand that CCM is really a very broad term. Some people just think of it as music written within the last 20(?) years....you know, more modern music. Others would classify CCM as a specific form and style of music.

Personally I don't like to use the term because of that. The music I actually object to would be that which sounds like rock n roll.....
The music I think we can do better in, is that which doesn't have alot of depth and is almost mindlessly repetitive.
I do think we need to get away from music which makes Jesus sound like our boyfriend, instead of our Saviour.

Most of us (from what I know) have no problem with music just because its been written this year, or last year or a few years ago. We aren't saying "Hymns only!" Frank Hamilton/"Patch the Pirate" is very modern....I like him alot.

I just wanted to clarify that, first.

 

Gina,

I looked at the link you provided, and it really changes nothing I said. Trying to make "Christian copies" of the world's music is still not something I could agree with.

This is what Wikipedia calls CCM, that now it has varying forms and includes hip hop, rock, metal, etc. These are the world's forms of music....there's really no denying that, although some will try, I know.

 

Jesus is the Rock that rolls my blues away. Shadoobie

 

Hey, I'm glad you looked!
I'm not going to really try to convince you otherwise. I know where you're coming from since I strongly held to the same viewpoint for a long time.
I simply changed my mind. I'm grateful that I can still listen to music styles I enjoy, but with a positive message to them rather than a pagan one. I don't think there are any instruments or styles that are inherently evil, although I realize some people really do think that. I just don't anymore, largely based on finding that some of the styles of hymns and such were once considered racey too!

So, just as I enjoy different styles of writing in Christian literature, or different kinds of clean movies, I continue to enjoy and appreciate different musical styles.

I do kinda wonder if you feel that music that isn't your old fashioned hymns and such are wrong for everyone, or if this is just a personal matter with you.

I admit, I used to think everyone was a vile sinner if they listened to CCM, and even wondered if they were really believers! Kinda scarey, I know, but the good thing when I changed was that I found out there were a lot more Christians out there than I'd previously thought, and I got a lot more encouragement in my spiritual walk than ever before since I was spending more time fellowshipping with other Christians rather than criticizing them.

Just a bit of personal testimony there...I know nobody asked but it was a pretty neat thing in my life, related to the topic, and I wanted to share!

 

Gina,
remember how I said in my post that I have no problem with much of the modern music? Older hymns are not the only music that Id find acceptable. I mentioned Frank Hamilton, who is a person alive and well right now, who writes and composes alot of music. Some of it is in the "sacred" style, but some is more like choruses, and others are just very pretty.....but it all has some sort of theological teaching.

Ive studied music alot, grown up with it all my life, love it as something that I believe we are meant to use to praise God with, even those of us who can only make a "joyful noise".

Theres alot of music out there these days that does NOT attempt to use the world's styles. This is what Im saying. Perhaps it is not as well known in your circles because its not being sold in stores, per se. It is being circulated among varying churches, heard at missions conferences and things.....

its not a profit making thing for them.....so they don't advertise it like the common CCM does.
(Im not criticizing profit, btw.)

 

Don't you think that we have liberty to liosten to the music we can, in good conscience, listen to? I think most of us would say yes. However, there is a major dofference when we come to the music in a public worhsip service. Do you ever consideer there were no instruments of music in the Temple. All the music and "dancing" was done outside the Temple because that was considered a Holy Place.

I pastor in Africa. I teach my people about worship this way:

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

We know what the truth is, the Word of God. The spirit of man is that part of man that can rationally communicate with God. The soul of man is the seat of emotions. We are not to worship God with our soul, but, rather with our spirit, our minds. This charismatic influence on our churches is a distortion of the truth of God's Word concerning true worship.

Someone once made a statement to me that I disagreed with. He said "All music is worship." Is it? When I sing the Star Spangled Banner am I worshipping America? When I sing lullabys to my children and I am worshipping something? If I sing a love song to my wife, am I worshipping her? I think not.

Music can be neutral. Most often it is emotional though. Therefore, the words we use to sing praises to God should be chosen very carefully considering the object of the one we are singing to.

Did I ramble too much? Sorry!

 

Gina,
remember how I said in my post that I have no problem with much of the modern music? Older hymns are not the only music that Id find acceptable. I mentioned Frank Hamilton, who is a person alive and well right now, who writes and composes alot of music. Some of it is in the "sacred" style, but some is more like choruses, and others are just very pretty.....but it all has some sort of theological teaching.

Ive studied music alot, grown up with it all my life, love it as something that I believe we are meant to use to praise God with, even those of us who can only make a "joyful noise".

Theres alot of music out there these days that does NOT attempt to use the world's styles. This is what Im saying. Perhaps it is not as well known in your circles because its not being sold in stores, per se. It is being circulated among varying churches, heard at missions conferences and things.....

its not a profit making thing for them.....so they don't advertise it like the common CCM does.
(Im not criticizing profit, btw.) </font>[/QUOTE]I went back and looked, but actually no, I didn't remember at all!
I'm not sure who Frank Hamilton is, if the music is done old style or more modern, I could swear I used to listen to Patch the Pirate when I was in gradeschool!

Anyhow, thanks for explaining. I've run into so many people who say "oh it's bad because it's rap" or "it's bad because the beat is too fast, style is too modern", even if it has excellent lyrics, so I assumed falsely that you were in that crowd that says "modern music = bad". Sorry!

 

no problem, Gina

Yes, Im sure you heard Patch the Pirate when you were a kid, he does alot of kid's songs. Patch the Pirate, the one who plays the Pirate, IS Frank Hamilton. He writes most of those songs himself, along with his wife, I believe.

But the Patch the Pirate are not his only work. He does sacred (probably what we'd both recognize as being more hymn-like) as well as choruses that adults would use (as opposed to "kid" songs like his "Pirate" tapes), and he also does arrangements and original songs in his own style.