Is this the truth about SBC leadership?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, May 12, 2006.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    http://www.abpnews.com/www/1021.article

    Ronnie Floyd nomination sparks talk of weak SBC support, fire-truck baptistry

    By Greg Warner

    Published: May 11, 2006

    SPRINGDALE, Ark. (ABP) -- News of the nomination of Arkansas megachurch pastor Ronnie Floyd to be the next Southern Baptist Convention president has brought new attention to his church's high-tech evangelism methods and lackluster financial support of the denomination he wants to lead.

    Floyd, pastor of First Baptist Church of Springdale, Ark., is the choice of the convention's inerrantist leaders, who have controlled the presidency for almost three decades, usually without opposition. The presidency has been the key to gaining and retaining control of the 16 million-member denomination and its agencies.

    But Floyd's nomination, announced May 7, brought a lukewarm reception from many conservative Southern Baptists anxious to see a more open election process and more exemplary support of the Cooperative Program, the SBC's central ministry budget.

    A blue-ribbon SBC panel recently urged the election of officers who come from churches that contribute at least 10 percent of their undesignated receipts to the Cooperative Program -- a standard few recent presidents have met.

    "First Baptist Springdale had nearly $12 million in undesignated receipts in 2005 and yet gave only $32,000 -- a mere 0.27 percent -- through the Cooperative Program," Florida pastor Michael Petty wrote May 11 in a guest editorial in the Florida Baptist Witness. "I do not see that as faithfulness and cooperation."

    The Springdale church and its satellite congregation, the Church at Pinnacle Hills, contributed a total of $32,000 to the CP last year, according to the SBC and the Arkansas Baptist State Convention. That's about one-fourth of 1 percent of its undesignated receipts of $11,952,137 -- or one-40th of the goal set by the SBC's leaders.

    Another $189,000 was designated for Southern Baptist causes through the SBC allocation budget, said Springdale administrative assistant Sharon Damron. But that bypassed the Cooperative Program budgets at the state and national levels.

    The church reports total missions expenditures of $1,637,503, Damron said, which includes $63,777 for the SBC's special mission offerings. That total also includes funding for the church's extensive television ministry, she said.

    Floyd, one of Southern Baptists' most visible leaders in recent years, has served as president of the SBC Pastors' Conference, chairman of the SBC Executive Committee and a member of the special committee that restructured the denominational agencies supported by the Cooperative Program.

    "… I do not believe we need to go to Greensboro and elect a president who does not demonstrate faithfulness to the convention he is being nominated to lead," wrote Petty, pastor of First Baptist Church of Marianna.

    Petty predicted a better nominee will emerge before the June 13-14 SBC meeting in Greensboro, N.C.

    "That's the point, there will be another candidate," added Benjamin Cole, a Texas pastor and leader of a loose network of young conservatives who recently issued a declaration of repentance calling for more openness from the SBC's leaders.

    "There is an unbelievable unrest about Ronnie Floyd's nomination," Cole told Associated Baptist Press.

    Cole and others said many conservatives are also upset about Springdale's evangelism techniques, such as the fire-truck baptistry that is part of its children's ministry.

    The unique baptistry, created by Disney designer Bruce Barry, is part of a $270,000 high-tech project for the church's children's worship area that includes video games, a light show, music videos and a bubble machine, according to Christianity Today. When a child is baptized in the fire-truck-shaped baptistry, sirens blare and confetti is fired out of cannons.

    "Putting a talking head in front of kids for an hour doesn't work," the children's minister told the magazine. "This is a visual generation. We need to use technology to the max."

    "This is blasphemous!" said SBC conservative leader Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, when told of the practice.

    In a May 9 interview with the Arkansas Baptist News, Floyd defended creative evangelism and urged Southern Baptists to become innovative in their strategies.

    “Our great gospel needs to be packaged in ways the culture can understand and receive,” he said, noting that baptisms in Southern Baptist churches continue to decline -- down 4 percent in 2005.

    “Relevance is more important than institutional loyalty,” he said, because taking the gospel to the whole world is more important than anything else Baptists do. He noted the denomination exists to serve the churches, not the other way around, and Southern Baptists must remain local-church centered.

    Floyd told the newspaper that, as president, he would emphasize spiritual renewal, which he identified as the SBC’s greatest need.

    “If elected president, I desperately want to lead us to spiritual renewal -- personally, one-on-one with Jesus and corporately within churches," he said. "We’ve got to come back to a mighty, fresh touch of God. Pastors need to proclaim it as never before. If we don’t see it happen, we will find ourselves in a desperate situation. We must love God first and take the Good News around the world.”

    In addition to spiritual renewal, Floyd said the other objectives he would bring to the office would be reinforcing the centrality of the local church within the SBC and reorienting the denomination toward the future.

    In explaining the vision he said persuaded him to be nominated, Floyd said, “I believe at this time I have no choice but to do this.” He said God put some things on his heart “to expand the life that I have left to advance the gospel across the world."

    “We need to clarify the mission -- taking the gospel of Jesus Christ to ends of the earth,” he said. “Everything else is secondary to that. … Missions is the only thing that can keep us together.”


    -- Charlie Warren of the Arkansas Baptist News contributed to this article.
     
  2. RandR

    RandR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Patterson quote is deceiving. It was said some time ago in a context where he wasn't aware of whom he was talking. I'd suspect he'd find a way to rationalize it now that Floyd is the "chosen one."
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Doesn't it seems strange that the SBC urges people to give to the CP yet "First Baptist Springdale had nearly $12 million in undesignated receipts in 2005 and yet gave only $32,000 -- a mere 0.27 percent -- through the Cooperative Program?" Doesn't something seem rather hypocritical in all this.
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't care about the CP.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thats good Joe - you are about to have an SBC pres that doesnt care about it either


    Dr. Ronnie Floyd, who will be nominated to succeed Dr. Bobby Welch as president of the Southern Baptist Convention, has been the pastor at First Baptist Church in Springdale, Arkansas since 1986. What follows is the record of that church's support of the Cooperative Program during his tenure.


    Year
    Undesignated Receipts
    Cooperative Program
    Percentage

    1986
    $1,398,075
    $128,586
    9.19%

    1987
    $1,651,755
    $146,929
    8.89%

    1988
    $1,882,105
    $179,840
    9.56%

    1989
    $2,165,265
    $200,000
    9.24%

    1990
    $2,434,105
    $200,000
    8.22%

    1991
    $2,584,245
    $200,000
    7.74%

    1992
    $2,955,735
    $200,000
    6.77%

    1993
    $3,783,625
    $220,000
    5.81%

    1994
    $4,323,764
    $242,000
    5.60%

    1995
    $4,510,307
    $250,000
    5.54%

    1996
    $4,915,860
    $275,000
    5.59%

    1997
    $5,174,379
    $219,000
    4.23%

    1998
    $5,386,436
    $225,000
    4.18%

    1999*
    $5,926,454
    $486,800
    8.21%

    2000*
    $7,392,331
    $474,927
    6.42%

    2001
    $8,028,127
    $174,992
    2.18%

    2002
    $8,278,618
    $248,917
    3.01%

    2003
    $10,470,164
    $204,992
    1.96%

    2004
    $10,881,867
    $312,226
    2.87%

    2005
    $11,952,137
    $32,000
    0.27%


    *Data for these two years does not differentiate the church's
    CP participation from its total missions expenditure for the year
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good. Personally, I think we should demand reform of the CP and certain projects funded by it before they get a penny from the local Churches. As a matter of fact, I think the churches should consider with-holding their money until the CP quits funding tv programs like the 700 Club. I think all Arminians should be fired from the convention and its agencies, and that Al Mohler should be the next president. :D

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with the first part of Joseph's post that there should be reform to the CP. I don't agree with the second part as I have the feeling that anyone who is not a five point Calvinist would not be acceptable, even though they are not full blown Arminians.

    Bro Tony
     
  8. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    3
    I think the SBC should return to the real historical faith by splitting into Particular and General Baptists. On second thought, maybe they already have done that. Are there very many Calvinist CBF churches? I would tend to think not.
     
  9. Shiloh

    Shiloh
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    0
    WHAT A MESS [​IMG]
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have an uneasy feeling about that .27% figure in the ACP. It's really out of whack with the other figures. I'd surely hate for everybody to bash Dr. Floyd and then find out that it's a typo.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't care about his Church's CP giving.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    Quote from Mr. Floyd:

    If missions is the ONLY thing that can keep the SBC together, why not just do away with it (SBC) and join up with the AG's, Presby's, etc., all could be united for missions after all.

    "Everything else is secondary to that" - pragmatism in its prime.

    I guess the preaching of the cross isn't the power of God unto salvation - it's the 3-ring circus that saves souls.

    This is what the god of bigness gets you.
     
  13. RandR

    RandR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Messages:
    348
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom,

    The .27% probably reflects money given through traditional CP channels (i.e. State Convention) vs. being sent directly to Nashville. I read (I can't remember where) that FBCS has begun to bypass its state convention. I believe that if one adds that amount to its CP giving, the total would be more in line with the 3-4% of other years.

    Bro. Tony,

    I think such fears about Mohler are unfounded. By "not a full blown Arminian" I presume that means a 3 or 4 point "Calvinist". I think you'd find some on the SBTS faculty, so I doubt he'd use a litmus test for convention posts that he doesn't use at the seminary over which he presides.

    What we should fear is the increasingly vitriolic tone that some prominent SBC voices have been using against their Calvinist brothers. If there is going to be any discrimination over soteriology, it will likely come from that direction.
     
  14. J.R.Maddox

    J.R.Maddox
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Never thought I would say this but....RandR...I AGREE!

    J
     
  15. NateT

    NateT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    0
    You won't find any 3 point calvinists in SBTS' faculty since the Abstract of Principles that they must sign covers 4 of the 5. You do find some 4 pointers. Including those in "leadership" positions.
     
  16. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nate you sure about that?

    I am in the DMin program at Southern and I am pretty sure I have taken classes under profs that came off to me as 3 pointers.
     
  17. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,430
    Likes Received:
    72
    A showdown over Calvinism is inevitable, IMO. I'm just ready to get it out of the way.
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    And you're a Southern Baptist?
     
  19. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep.

    And you?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  20. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    BGC
     

Share This Page

Loading...