Is Tongues talked about in Baptist Doctrine

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Pearl, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Pearl

    Pearl
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    Is Speaking in Tongues talked about in Baptist Doctrine? I do speak in Tongues but, I don't know if Baptist Doctrine taks about it. :confused:
     
  2. Lorelei

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    I don't know what Baptist doctrine says but I know what the Bible says.

    Read 1 Corinthians 12 - 14 and you will get a clear picture of the instructions about this gift.

    Chapter 14 especially talks about how tongues are not to be used unless they are to build up the church and in order for the church to be edified tongues must always be interpreted. Woman are also not to speak in tongues, for they are to be silent in the church and how can a woman be silent and speak in tongues?

    ~Lorelei
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    I bear to differ tongues ended with the Apostles and they were on there way out during Apostle Pauls ministry. An unknown tongue is a language and I can give you a good example. I have a deaf son you uses American Sign Language. If he talks to you in sign you can't understand him unless you know sign. His sister and him sign all the time but she will talk your head off. She will also tell you what he said and sign to him what you say. She is an interpreter for him.

    It would be the same for any foreign language as I don't understand greek or hebrew and would need an interpreter if someone spoke to me in that language. Since God is not the author of confusion and you won't find that in the day of Penecost the speaking in tongues only applied to that day and time and ended there. Those who say different have misapplied the tongues issue according to scriptures... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ March 14, 2002, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  4. Overdose

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    Would it be confusion, if God knew what your were saying ? because you were praying to him...
    Peace,
    OD
     
  5. Don

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    The problem with that, Overdose, is that there's not one single biblical example of what you're describing.

    Every example of speaking in tongues in the book of Acts is someone speaking in a language they don't personally know, but someone present does; in other words, as Lorelei has tried to point out many times before, the gift of tongues was a witnessing tool.

    In fact, in his rebuke to the church of Corinth for their improper use of this gift, Paul even states unequivocably that tongues are a sign for unbelievers--NOT for us to use so that we can pray "secretly" with God.
     
  6. Don

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    Pearl, in most books that outline Baptist doctrine--no, speaking in tongues is not mentioned. Because basic Baptist doctrine rejects the gift of speaking in tongues (due to the belief of it ending with the apostolic times), especially the way the gift is used and encouraged today.
     
  7. Overdose

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    1 Cor 14:2

    2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries
    KJV
    ;)
    Peace,
    OD

    [ March 14, 2002, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: ovrdose ]
     
  8. tyndale1946

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    A person can pray to God in any language as God understands them all but give chapter and verse of a heavenly language? I've never found one in my Bible, please show me... Brother Glen :confused:
     
  9. Don

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    Context, Overdose, ol' boy.

    1 Corinthians 14:3 -- But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
    4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

    9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

    What that verse (verse 2) describes, old chap, is not an example of praying to God in a "secret" language, but of sounding as tinkling brass, or a trumpet with an uncertain sound, or speaking as a barbarian.

    [​IMG]

    Tyndale, the verse they attempt to use is 1 Corinthians 13:1 ... the ONLY verse in the entire bible that mentions such a thing.
     
  10. tyndale1946

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    Here is a summation on the scripture you brought up by that great expositor of the Bible John Gill

    Ver. 2. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue,.... Or with tongues, as some copies and the Ethiopic version read: Dr. Lightfoot thinks, that the Hebrew tongue, which was become a dead language, and understood but by few, is here meant, and that not without reason; seeing the public prayers, preaching, and singing of psalms among the Jews, were in this languages {x}; in imitation of whom, such ministers, who had the gift of speaking this language, read the Scriptures, preached, prayed, and sung psalms in it, which were no ways to the edification of the people, who understood it not; upon which account the apostle recommends prophesying, praying, and singing, in a language that was understood: otherwise he

    speaketh not unto men; to the understanding, profit, and edification of men: but unto God: to his praise and glory, and he only knowing, who knows all languages, and every word in the tongue what is said; excepting himself, unless there should be any present capable of interpreting:

    for no man understandeth him: or "heareth him": that is, hears him, so as to understand him; he may hear a sound, but he cannot tell the meaning of it, and so it is of no use and advantage to him:

    howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries; though under the influence and by the extraordinary gift of the Spirit he has, and to his own Spirit and understanding, and with great affection and devotion within himself, he speaks of the deep things of God, and the mysteries of his grace, the most glorious truths of the Gospel, yet the meaning of his voice and words not being known, he is a barbarian to them that hear him; and though what he delivers are truths of the greatest importance, they are a mere jargon to others, being unintelligible... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  11. Overdose

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    Hmmmm good question.... :confused:
    How this.....1 Cor 13:1
    13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
    KJV

    Best I could find on short notice :D

    Peace,
    OD
     
  12. Overdose

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    Don ole buddy ole pal...

    Just saying that privately praying in tongues is acceptable... That way there would be no confusion..

    Peace,
    OD
     
  13. tyndale1946

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    I know exactly where they are coming from as my wife is Pentecostal and I don't agree with her either! Brother Glen :D
     
  14. Christopher

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    Don't forget the purpose of spiritual gifts.

    (1 Cor. 14:26) ...Let all things be done unto edifying.

    Don't try to twist scripture to excuse the mess that goes on in churches that don't have Biblical authority for what they are doing.

    Tongues and interpretation of tongues are to both be exercised if tongues is done publicly. PERIOD. Anything else does not have scriptural authority!
     
  15. Overdose

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    Here ya go....


    TONGUES, GIFT OF
    (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 by Biblesoft)

    A spiritual gift mentioned in Acts 10:44-46; 11:15; 19:6; Mark 16:17, and described in Acts 2:1-13 and at length in 1 Cor 12-14, especially chapter 14. In fact, 1 Cor 14 contains such a full and clear account that this passage is basic. The speaker in a tongue addressed God (verses 2,28) in prayer (verse 14), principally in the prayer of thanksgiving (verses 15-17).

    1. Basic Character of 1 Cor 14: The words so uttered were incomprehensible to the congregation (verses 2,5,9, etc.), and even to the speaker himself (verse 14). Edification, indeed, was gained by the speaker (verse 4), but this was the edification of emotional experience only (verse 14). The words were spoken "in the spirit" (verse 2); i.e. the ordinary faculties were suspended and the divine, specifically Christian, element in the man took control, so that a condition of ecstasy was produced. This immediate (mystical) contact with the divine enabled the utterance of "mysteries" (verse 2)-things hidden from the ordinary human understanding (see MYSTERY). In order to make the utterances comprehensible to the congregation, the services of an "interpreter" were needed. Such a man was one who had received from God a special gift as extraordinary as the gifts of miracles, healings, or the tongues themselves (12:10,30); i.e. the ability to interpret did not rest at all on natural knowledge, and acquisition of it might be given in answer to prayer (14:13). Those who had this gift were known, and Paul allowed the public exercise of "tongues" only when one of the interpreters was present (verse 28). As the presence of an interpreter was determined before anyone spoke, and as there was to be only one interpreter for the "two or three" speakers (verse 28), any interpreter must have been competent to explain any tongue. But different interpreters did not always agree (verse 26), whence the limitation to one.

    2. Foreign Languages Barred Out: These characteristics of an interpreter make it clear that "speaking in a tongue" at Corinth was not normally felt to be speaking in a foreign language. In verse 10 English Versions of the Bible are misleading with "there are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world," which suggests that Paul is referring directly to the tongues. But tosauta there should be rendered "very many," "ever so many," and the verse is as purely illustrative as is verse 7. Hence, foreign languages are to be barred out. (Still, this need not mean that foreign phrases may not occasionally have been employed by the speakers, or that at times individuals may not have made elaborate use of foreign languages. But such cases were not normative at Corinth.) Consequently, if "tongues" means "languages," entirely new languages must be thought of. Such might have been of many kinds (12:28), have been regarded as a fit creation for the conveyance of new truths, and may even at times have been thought to be celestial languages-the "tongues of angels" (13:1). On the other hand, the word for "tongue" (glossa) is of fairly common use in Greek to designate obsolete or incomprehensible words, and, specifically, for the obscure phrases uttered by an oracle. This use is closely parallel to the use in Corinth and may be its source, although then it would be more natural if the "ten thousand words in a tongue" of 14:19 had read "ten thousand glossai." In no case, however, can "tongue" mean simply the physical organ, for 14:18,19 speaks of articulated words and uses the plural "tongues" for a single speaker (compare verses 5,6).
    (from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (c)1996 by Biblesoft)

    Sorry for the length, I know I hate to read long posts...

    Peace,
    OD
     
  16. tyndale1946

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    Let me pose one question. Were there any interpreters on the day of Pentecost? If they were show me and if there were not show me according to scripture... Old and New!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  17. Overdose

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    Thats all I trying to say Christopher :D ...
    Iam in no way saying what goes on in "some" churches is right.

    Peace,
    OD
     
  18. Don

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    Overdose--that's the ONLY verse you'll find, in the entire Bible, that mentions a "heavenly" tongue. A couple of years ago I searched out every verse in both the Old and New Testaments that mentioned the words tongue, tongues, language, languages, and mentioned angels.

    No other reference to a "tongue of angels." It doesn't exist.

    Now put that verse in context by comparing it with the following verses:
    "though I speak in the tongues of men and of angels...."
    (v2)"though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge...."
    "though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains...."
    (v3) "though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor...though I give my body to be burned...."

    The problem with using this one single verse as a justification for a "heavenly language" is the constant use of "though." The Greek word is "ean," and means if, in case. One must necessarily ask, was Paul talking about things that he himself did?

    I've heard the argument that he was generically describing things that happened to Christians at the time; while possible, it doesn't explain his statements about understanding ALL mysteries or ALL knowledge, or having ALL faith so that he could remove mountains.

    And the second part is that he wasn't really talking about things people did; he was talking about the power and impact of love.

    The obvious conclusion is that his references here are mainly rhetorical, not statements of fact. Thus, "though I speak in the tongue...of angels" is not meant to encourage anyone to seek a tongue of angels; which is further substantiated by the fact that there is no other mention of this supposed heavenly language anywhere in the Bible.
     
  19. Overdose

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    Brother Glen, let me pose a what if here ok? I know it may be reaching, but what if? Each person who heard their own tongue, was actually interpreting the other person in the spirit, and didnt realize it... I know that the bible doesnt say that as a 100% fact but what if? So yes and no to your question... I also know that the bible college students real rip that apart, but so be it.

    Peace,
    OD

    [ March 14, 2002, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: ovrdose ]
     
  20. Overdose

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    Don,
    How many scriptures would do it for you? 10-15 scriptures maybe? If I had 1,000 you would change your point of view. ;)

    God bless you,
    OD
     

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