Is your church or pastor on the list?

Brother Bob is not idolizing Calvin, Spurgeon, Whitefield, or anyone else. He is just pointing out that this definition of repentance that is going around in evangelicalism is new. The one prominent figure in evangelical history who I have found who does not believe repentance means a forsaking of sin is CHarles Finney(I like him btw).

I have a link about Charles Finney's views on repentance and he doesn't mention an abandonment of sin. He defines it as a change of mind about sin, to start seeing sin as something heinous and damning. But here is the interesting thing, he says that this change of mind will produce an abandonment of sin! So he differs on his definition that Spurgeon and he others, but they both think repentance looks the same. Abandoning sin. One says abandoning sin is evidence of repentance(Finney) and the other says abandoning sin IS repentance.

So this is by no means an exhaustive study, but I'm so happy with this thread! There has been such good information compiled and sources cited, and while the debate hasnt been so much in scripture, it has still been very fruitful. I hope we can continue to examine this issue, historically and biblically. :thumbs:

Note : I'll be back later and post the link and the Finney quotes where he says that this change of mind will produce an abandnment of sin.

 

Shame on you for playing the Servetus card. I could correct your history, but there's no point. It has nothing whatsoever to do with his or anyone else's theology.

 

In attempting to disassociate himself with works-based-repentance (which I believe is a misunderstanding of the definition of repentance), Anderson seems to desire to erase repentance entirely from salvation.

On one end, we have people (like Anderson) who apparently do not believe that repentance is necessary at all. On the other end, we have people who believe that a change of action as a result of a change of mind is necessary in order to get to the point where one could receive salvation.

I suppose I'm in the middle. I believe repentance (change of mind) is necessary (in fact, I might go as far to say it is salvation, or at least the small willingness we have to accept Christ [yes, it's not us, but Him who saves]- I mean, how else could you turn to Christ without a change of mind). I believe there are no strings attached (no works, no need to 'clean yourself up') before seeking salvation. Forgiveness is available on a whosoever will basis.

Housecleaning and repairs, in this case, is a joint effort between the landlord and the the permanent tenant. After the tenant moves in, He takes a look around at the filth, and points it out to the landlord. He doesn't take a look around before moving in, and then pick and choose where He will move into based on how clean it is inside. But after He moves in, in some, it's an immediate change. In others, it can take months- even years, to fix up the old shack. The landlord could try and try to do it on his own, but in our case, that just never works out.

I think most of the disagreement is simply different definitions/understandings of the word "repentance" (metanoeo). Anyway, interesting topic, and an interesting site. I think perhaps based on the sites extreme stand against repentance, I could probably be added to that list myself. :type:

 

Kinda blows this scripture out of the water doesn't it?

2Cr 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

I like the NKJV, although the two say the same thing:

Notice, however that godly sorrow produces repentance. It isn't the same thing AS repentance.

 

agree..............Yeaaaaaaaaaa

 

JESUS told us to repent!

Jesus Christ also tell us to REPENT or we will perish...LUKE 3....

 

Wow, excellent point! Never seen that before

 

Hi there
I totally agree with you
Repentance is to gain salvation and to be truly sorry for our sins

from rick

 

We need to keep in mind what the word "repent" actually means. It means "to have a change of heart/mind" and "to turn away from and see differently." Upon being convicted by the Holy Spirit, a person who responds to the Gospel will realize that they are a sinner and that they need to change. Their spiritual eyes are opened. Only Christ can change them; they can't change themselves, but the knowing they have a need of being changed is one of the first steps to realizing the need for salvation. When they believe the Gospel, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He died for all their sin, and that they need to call upon Him to be saved, they have pretty much already had a change of mind and a turning away from their old life, realizing they need to be born again. Their heart has been softened to the Gospel message. Christ, upon saving them, begins to change them and show them how they should live, which is also where the Bible comes in to help them learn and grow.

I have seen the words "repent" and "repentance" sometimes being given the wrong definition in our culture. People misunderstand and think it means to confess all your sin in order to be saved or that you must come to Christ beating your chest and weeping and wailing in sorrow over your sin. But no one can remember every single sin they have ever committed in their life. If we had to confess every single sin it would impossible and it would be similar to the Catholic theology of confessing one's sins to the priest to receive absolution.

There definitely needs to be a change of heart and mind when a person is saved. That is the new fruit that is produced in a believer's life. If Christian fruit is absent, perhaps the person didn't really mean it when they prayed or they misunderstood the Gospel message. Although, even as Christians we still do sin.

I think it more comes down to an incorrect definition placed on the word "repentance" and the misunderstanding that goes with that.

 

Amen, Brother standingfirminChrist -- Preach it! :thumbs:

//The Repentance Blacklist website.//

tee hee!

Sanderson is anti-pretribulation rapture.
But I use the KJV1611, KJV1769, KJV1873, etc.
prove the pretribulatin rapture

BTW Bro. StandingfirminChrist,
I didn't see your name there

 

He is supposed to add mine too.. and I did get an email back from him....
Kinda made me feeel speecial!!!

 

He tried to nail me with an accusation that I was a false prophet because I signed it Rev. tim...

The Rev.. got him...

 

lololol That might get his attention...
But I bet he is reading this... so it might not...

 

Preach it Rev Ron!!!