Featured Isaiah on the "Free Will" of the Unregenerate Man

It is possible that what you suggest is the case. What is more likely, in my opinion, is that Spurgeon uses the term "regeneration" in the Winman quote like all of us do sometimes- as a synonym for salvation since it is most certainly a vital part of salvation and since it leads to salvation inevitably.

I will sometimes say, "You must be SAVED, dear friend!"
Other times I will preach, "You must be JUSTIFIED, good neighbor!"
Other times I will say, "You must be BORN AGAIN (regenerated), dear sir!"

Since they are appropriate to use interchangeably then to do so is just fine.

But when speaking specifically about each one we must be more pointed and clear.

In the Winman quote, Spurgeon was, imo, simply using "regeneration" as a synonym for salvation as I do above.

In my quote, Spurgeon is speaking theologically and specifically and being more precise.

It is most likely that Spurgeon always believed, since the earliest days of his ministry that regeneration precedes faith- which is most assuredly what the Bible clearly teaches.

God bless!

 

Oh, Willis, my brother! Why can't I open your eyes to see this!?!raying:

That is the case with EVERY SINGLE SINNER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

NO SINNER would ever come if God did not overcome "their love of self, pride, haughtiness, etc..."

There are not good sinners who will come and bad sinners who will not come.

There are just bad sinners who will not come unless God humbles them and gives them a heart to come.

This drips from every page, every paragraph, between every set of punctuations of holy writ! Why can you not see it my beloved brother in Christ!?!?

 

Nope, CHS didn't use the word "regeneration" as you think he did, but stated it like this:

Two different times he said that the regenerated is saved already. Now, he could have wrote this in an earlier sermon, and then changed his mind later through much study, or vice versa, but he does have quotes used by both sides that state something entirely different.

 

I have never stated that there is such a thing as "good" and "bad" sinners. All sinners are bad in God's eyes, and are under His wrath, under the curse of death, in the state of reprobation, etc. Until we are placed in Christ, and given life, we are under condemnation. No one has life w/o faith, no one has life outside of Christ, no one has life, and then later on believes. Belief in the One who died for us is what causes us to be alive in Him.

 

He is saying exactly what I said he was saying- that regeneration, in that sense, is a synonym for salvation.

This quote furthers what I purported.

 

You have indicated that you believe there are these two classes of sinners.

One is a proud class of sinners that do not get saved.

The other is a humble class of sinners that do get saved.

All sinners are proud and none of them come to the light unless they are drawn by the Father and given a new heart that can receive the Gospel and Christ.

This bunch of humble sinners that you speak of is foreign to the Bible and reality.

 

I feel so warm and affirmed now knowing that I am pointless and irrelevant.

 

It took you THAT long to figure this out? J/K :laugh: :wavey: :flower:

 

Regeneration before faith is as ridiculous, just like regeneration before the working of the Holy Spirit in your life through His word is ridiculous.

1 Peter 1:12
It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

What Spurgeon is saying to me simple is someone on the street who never heard the Gospel of their salvation can never have any life in them.

It takes the working of the Holy Spirit which Jesus word is Spirit and life to be regenerated.

 

Help me out.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: the gift of God:

Does not this verse say that the gift of God, salvation, is given because of the grace of God that is the result of, through faith (in GNT Morph) ( through the faith in TR)?

Therefore does this not mean that first there was, faith or the faith, then God gave grace and because of the two of these there is salvation?

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Here again we have salvation, he saved us. That is salvation was wrought for us. Where is the faith and or the grace here, in this salvation? It has to be here somewhere. We do see something new here. Mercy. I do not think mercy and grace are the same thing. Let us look for the grace through the faith.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

That is speaking of Jesus and he appeared and died. Romans 5:9 says we are now justified (made righteous) by his blood (death). Romans 3:22 says the righteousness of God is by the faith of Jesus. Gal 2:16 says man is not justified (made righteous) not by works of the law but by the faith of Jesus. Romans 3:25 says God (the Father) set forth Jesus the Son, a propitiation (a place of mercy) through the faith (GNT and TR) in his blood

I believe we can see here God's mercy was according to the faith of Jesus Christ. Through the faith of Jesus the Father set forth him a place of mercy bringing the grace of God. How? What is the grace of God toward the dead Jesus Christ. John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him (Jesus the Son) do believe in God,(the Father) that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. What is the glory of the Living God? by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;

Whose faith, whose mercy, whose grace, whose salvation.

We will receive the gift of God through Jesus Christ. Because he received therefore in due time we also shall receive. Joint heirs with Christ.

 

Another "spot-on" post, Brother. :applause::godisgood::jesus::applause:

 

Would you agree with this?

They preached the gospel, because they had been given the promise of the Holy Spirit from heaven.

Paul asked this question. Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Of course the hearing of faith is the correct answer. What did Jesus the Christ himself say concerning the Holy Spirit being given to one?
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit to be sent from heaven is it/He not? The promise of the Holy Spirit would not and I say could not be given sent to the sheep unless Jesus did go away, whatever that means.

Is this the truth or not?

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise (of the Holy Spirit) by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (That believe, the sheep.)

Why can none that read these forums not understand that, the faith, they were hearing of by which they received the Holy Spirit was Jesus the Christ going away, dying on the cross see Gal. 2:20,21 and 3:1.

The faith of Jesus Christ was him dying on the cross. Poured out his soul (life blood) unto death. The soul is the blood.

BTW that preceded mercy, and grace. And in one of those we find regeneration.

 

Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;

Which, is the Holy Spirit. How was the Holy Spirit, the Comforter shed on us?

Because He Jesus the Christ had gone away. He died, for the sin of the world had been lain on him by God his Father. He lay dead in Hades covered with all the filthy sin of the world.

John 16:19-22 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.

What happened to all that filthy sin?

by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;

It was washed from the dead Jesus, his soul was not left in Hades, the firstborn from the dead, the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;


Is this not what the word of God says?

 

Acts 10 :
39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 1:4
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

Acts 2
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[Or languages; also in verse 11] as the Spirit enabled them.

1 Peter 1:12
It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 11 :
20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 1 :
3 His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters,[The Greek word for brothers and sisters (adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women, as part of God’s family.] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Psalm 22:5
To You they cried out and were delivered; In You they trusted and were not disappointed.

John 20 :
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Hebrews 11 :
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

2 Corinthians 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.



I was included with the elect when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed. If God did not pick the elect there will be no one spreading the message. They are nothing Jesus is everything. The one who sends the messenger is greater than the messenger. God could pick a donkey, a burning bush, a worm to be His messengers, but it does not mean they are saved by the Holy Spirit that sent them, only those who trust in the one who sends will be saved. The Jews is an example how much election can save a man without trusting in the one who elects.

Jude 1:
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[Some early manuscripts Jesus] at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

 

There seems to have been a bit of ambiguity with Spurgeon. Perhaps it's because he was a Fullerite? Lots of ambiguity to be found there.

http://evangelica.de/articles/doctrine/an-unworthy-gospel-fullerism/

http://www.littlezionpbc.org/Materials/What_is_the_Problem_with_Fullerism_10 Points_021607.htm

http://evangelica.de/articles/doctrine/why-i-am-not-a-follower-of-andrew-fuller/

 

One of the links above doesn't work, this one does:

http://marchtozion.com/history/514-what-is-the-problem-with-fullerism