isn't it true that only calvinists can Hold to eternal Security?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    For we hold to death of jesus as a definite atonement/propiation, and that we do not have "free will" as basis to have sinners saved?
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    No..... Im not a calvinist & I do.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    You hold to definite atonement, and that God election based upon His free will, and all shall get saved and secured, so why not a calvinist, at least one holding to DoG?
     
  4. webdog

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    Easy analogy. You put a gun in a persons hand and pull the trigger for them killing someone.

    I freely choose to shoot and kill someone.

    Why would the first scenario be the only one in which the result is permanent?
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    I don't understand what you are stating here....
     
  6. webdog

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    Eternal security is a completed action just like the killing in the analogy. You believe there is no free will, I do. There is no reason the believe only you can hold to the results.
     
  7. convicted1

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    I am not a Calvinist, and I hold to eternal security. As Paul stated, "I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto His hands". I committed my life to Him, and He alone, keeps me on the straight and narrow path.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    My point in the OP is that IF one does not hold to a penal substituinary atonememnt view, as many Arminians seem to not to, and IF you hold to God honoring fully your free will, as many arminians do, why would he not honor you to allow you to walk away from him, as he will not take you out of his won hand, but will permit you too?

    Arguing from arminian free will perspective here!
     
  9. Winman

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    The truly born again person is born of God, and born of incorruptible seed. He cannot fall away in unbelief because the Holy Spirit remains in him.

    1 Jhn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    The problem for Calvinists is that they believe men are unable to believe with true saving faith, and they have no way to know if their faith is that real saving faith. Calvin taught that God gives some persons an impression they are saved that is so real they believe they are saved, but are not. Therefore no Calvinist can really know he is saved. Many Calvinists themselves such as John Piper admit that Calvinists suffer from lack of assurance.

    http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-agonizing-problem-of-the-assurance-of-salvation

    http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/05/doubting-calvinists/

    Calvinism doesn't sound so great to me.
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    Maybe you should research what others believe, it is obvious from this thread you do not actually know.
     
  11. InTheLight

    InTheLight
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    He is researching, he's not comprehending. He's asking multiple questions on a daily basis and getting answers. He just doesn't like the answers or doesn't listen to them. Some questions he's asked two or three times either with his current screen name or his previous screen names. Best thing to do is killfile him.
     
  12. Jerome

    Jerome
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    isn't this a discussion board? No need to get upset or in a tift here, aren't we all bethren in the lord, who just at times have interesting disagreements?
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Same as the other thread on Calvinism providing the basis for OSAS.

    Calvinism claims that no choice gets you into heaven -- so no choice will result in the loss of heaven.

    Arminianism has no such construct for OSAS. For us the lost must accept salvation. The only way to have OSAS after that is to remove free will for the saved - but allow it for the lost.

    Which is not an Arminian concept and does not make sense because it turns into "you made a choice to be saved and now that your saved your choices do not matter".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Both Arminians and Calvinists agree that there is such a thing as being saved and then "persevering firm unto the end".

    Where they differ is on whether choice is involved in getting saved.

    And if not then the argument that you cannot be lost by "a choice" because choice did not enter into the equation for your getting saved - becomes a strong argument.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. OldRegular

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    What about one point Calvinists like Winman!
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Calvinists, Arminians and non-Cals "can" all teach OSAS - certainly there are those in all those groups that do.

    But a great many Arminians such as Methodists (and I suppose also groups like Free Will Baptists) and even much larger groups like the denomination I belong to do not hold to OSAS because we do not think it is supported by the Bible. What is more we find it impossible to reconcile with the free will constructs of the Arminian POV. (And of course I know there are non-Protestant groups much larger than that - that do not agree with OSAS as well).

    Whether or not you claim to find OSAS supported in the Bible - one thing is clear - Calvinism has a construct for it right in the TULiP core - which is that entrance into the saved new-birth state is not affected by the choice of man in any way. The irresistable grace tradition in Calvinism combined with the arbitrary selection idea - has the lost simply waking up one day to discover that he is already a saved born-again saint. Thus in Calvinism that same argument can be employed to state that the saved can never make a choice that would render them no longer saved since choice on their part played not part in entrance into the saved state.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #17 BobRyan, Jan 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2014
  18. questdriven

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    (Nvm nvm nvm)
     

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