Israel and the Church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by InChrist, Oct 4, 2005.

  1. InChrist

    InChrist
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    Hi All

    I am new here, and not sure if this topic is in the right discussion group.. but here goes...

    I have been doing some study on Israel and God's plans for her, and have come against something that I can't get my head around!

    The book of Hosea tells us of the prodigal wife, Gomer, and her unfaithfulness, her punishment, her restoration and her redemption.

    I understand that Hosea and Gomer’s relationship is also representative of the relationship between God and Israel, and this is what brings questions to my mind…

    1) Does the Book of Hosea indicate that Israel was God’s wife (bride)? Jeremiah 3:8 says “And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.”

    2) If Israel was considered God’s wife and is now divorced, then the story of Hosea and Gomer also depicts restoration and redemption of his unfaithful wife. Does this mean that Israel will not only be redeemed during the Great Tribulation but will also be restored back into relationship with God as his wife?

    3) How does this reconcile with the fact that the Church is the Bride of Christ, and that Israel is a separate entity in God’s future plans?

    4) I am probably missing some important questions or facts here… so if you have anything to add that I should be looking at I would appreciate the information!

    InChrist
     
  2. Brother James

    Brother James
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    It might be good to read this in the light of Romans 2, 3 and 4 as well as Galations 2,3 and 4.
    God Bless you Brother
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    The answer is Yes, Israel will be restored to her relationship with God. The NT confirms that on many occasions.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    In one sense, believers today are ALL "children of Abraham" (children of faith) and the middle wall of partition between Jew/Gentile broken down in the church. This is a spiritual heritage we all share.

    That does not abrogate God's promises to Israel as a nation. He promised xyz to the Jewish nation and they will be fulfilled literally. Last time I checked, God was not big into lying!!

    Always good to see whether God is talking about spiritual or physical and keep the two clearly distinguished. It will help not to confuse application of the pomises.
     
  5. Brother James

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    Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.


    Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.


    Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    But remember, James, those promises are repeated in the prophets, almost a 1000 years later.
     
  7. Brother James

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    Not trying to be argumentative brother. Just trying to present another view other than the dispensational one. Here's something even later than the prophets:

    Hbr 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;


    Hbr 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.


    Hbr 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore [it is] of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.


    Hbr 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:


    Hbr 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.


    Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


    Hbr 8:7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.


    Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


    Hbr 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


    Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


    Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


    Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


    Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away

    2Cr 1:20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    [ October 04, 2005, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Brother James ]
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    But that doesn't contradict what God previously said.
     
  9. Me4Him

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    1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you,

    This "fornication" can be either "literal" or "Spiritual", as in "whoring after other gods", which Israel is guilty of, rejecting Holy Ghost leadership.

    And what is to happen to those who commit this sin?

    1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    God turns them over to satan during the trib, and they are "physically killed" if they trust in Jesus.

    Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

    The Trib is part "chastisement" of Israel for rejecting Jesus.


    This is where the "TRINTIY" explains/interprets scripture.

    The "Marriage supper of the Lamb" occurs "during the trib", and the "Marriage in "CANA" is the "Remarriage" between God/Israel, Jesus and "his disciples" (Church) are invited, it occurs "IN THE THIRD DAY" which make it the "Mill reign".

    Ho 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

    The above verse is true both Literally (day=1000 years) and "Spiritually". (72 hours, Jesus's resurrection)

    This might help.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html
     
  10. InChrist

    InChrist
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    Thank you all for your insights... I will have to go and do some study before I can make any comments... I think I am still confused!

    (Not about the covenants made with Israel.. I know that God does not lie and has every intention of keeping His promises)

    InChrist
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    1. I have a feeling that you missed a day in Sophmore English
    when the following was discussed:

    SIMILE - n. - A figure of speech in which two
    unlike things are explicitly compared
    Examples: "she is like a rose", "she is as a rose"

    METAPHOR - n. - A figure of speech in which two
    unlike things are implicitly compared
    Example: "she is a rose"

    Israel is like a wife to God.
    Judah is as a divorced-for-infidelity woman to God


    As for the largely gentile church:
    it's metaphors are:
    A. the bride of Christ
    B. the body of Christ

    2. But what about if Judah was a literal wife of God
    and the Church is a literal bride of Christ?

    Why is it that God has told mankind, especially the
    church, ONE WIFE? Doesn't matter the reason, is God
    bound by His laws for mankind? The wisest human ever,
    King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 sub-wives --
    does God limit himself to one and only one wife?
     
  12. DeafPosttrib

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    Isn't Israel belong to Christ as HIs wife? - "And there came unto me of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plaques, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's WIFE. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountian, and shewed that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,....And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelves angels, and names written thereon, which are the the names of the twelves tribes of the children of Israel." - Revelation 21:9,10, & 12

    Israel is Christ's wife.
    Church is Christ's wife.

    No difference between Israel and Church, both are same in Christ.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     

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