Israel / Church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Berean

    Berean
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    I understand that scripture is written to all believers be they Jew (Israel) or The Church but are they interchangeable or synonymous, I know I hear a lot of referances to II Chron 7: 14 (If my people who--------------.) and it is applied to this present age. This "preaches good" but is it applied to the USA and the rest of the world? I read this as applying only to Israel and is no more applicapable to us today then Lev 20:10 (And the man that committeth adultry with another mans wife--------------.). I see John Haggee and most of the TV preachers on TBN seem to refer to them as the same.
     
  2. Yeshua1

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    Paul in Ephesians seems to indicate that God deals with Gentiles AND isreal, so he still saw them as being a seperate grouping...

    Would also say NONE on TBN should be trusted as speaking for what the bible teaches!
     
  3. Berean

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    Charles Stanley airs his TV minisery or has in the past on TBN. But as far as I know expouses none of their garbage.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    Could you defend that with Scripture?
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Christians should pray for God's blessing and care for this country. That being said the United States is not Israel. With the crucifixion the nation Israel had finished their task in God's purpose of redemption. An ethnic Israelite occupies the same relation relative to God as any other person.
     
  6. timf

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    There is another view that holds that a remnant of Israel will be restored at the return of Jesus and that this Israel will revive her King as she was offered the first time Jesus came.

    One has to allegorize quite a bit in order to get many of the Old Testament prophecies to fit the church today.
     
  7. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    A Question....

    So OR...are you saying that God is completely finished with the Jews and the nation of Israel and that they are now irrelevant in God's ongoing and future plans?

    Bro.Greg
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    The Church is the New Israel.

    The old Israel ceased to exist politically after the Baylonian Captivity in 586 BC. The tribes disappeared and anyone who is a Jew comes from the tribe of Judah which is the only remaining tribe of the original Israelite nation.

    Jews have an offer of eternal life, they need to see Jesus as the Messiah and accept Him as Savior. There is no post-mortem salvation, or ethnic salvation, for Jews who do not believe in Jesus in this life.
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    BOTH jews an gentiles are saved by same Covenant, the New One, and for now those saved by god are in the Church, but when rapture hits, God will deal with national isreal once again as a nation and race on an individual basis!
     
  10. OldRegular

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    That is exactly what I am saying!
     
  11. OldRegular

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    Only in the mind of dispensationalists, not in Scripture.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    Jeremiah/Ezeckiel/Isaiah and jesus and Paul would disagree with you, as they taught it also!
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    Hello TIMF,

    Some understand it to be that Israel...{the believing elect remnant} was in view with Gentiles grafted in...to be the True, or Eternal Israel...because Jesus is the head and we are the body.
    So when the OT prophets looked forward....gentiles were included into the exact same Kingdom....jews did not understand this...dispensationalists also do not understand this....so they fight to make a distinction that EPH 2 clearly says has been done away...by God IN CHRIST>
     
  14. OldRegular

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    Of course dispensationalists never concede that they could be wrong. Why do you think there is a move to progressive dispensationalism. Some of these people realize that classic dispensational view of the Church is not Biblical.
     
  15. OldRegular

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:A hearty amen. Why these people want to rebuild that wall of separation is a mystery!
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    Iknow, as I identify myself with being a progressive dispy!
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    We dont. as in this present age/dispensation, BOTH jews/gentiles saved under new Covenant, its just that the Lord in end times will redeal with national isreal again!

    was postponed when they rejected Yeshua, NOT forfeited!
     
  18. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Thank You

    Brother OR...thank you for your plain answer! I'll talk more about it at some point later. For the record...I disagree. How could a fellow South Carolinian be so contrary!?:smilewinkgrin: You must be one of those midlands Gamecock boys!:laugh: You'd be far better off if you lived up in my neck of God's country where the Tigers roam!!!:thumbs: The Columbia crowd has ruined many a good South Cackalackian....too much politics!!! Just messes'em up and puts'em to sleep every time!:sleep:

    By the way...I will admit that Conner Shaw sure can lob that football a fer piece!

    Bro.Greg
     
    #18 Gregory Perry Sr., Oct 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2012
  19. preachinjesus

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    This, bolded part, is found no where in Scripture.

    (please learn to spell Israel correctly...also Bible book names...this stuff matters man.)
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    it is found in the Biblre, but all depends on how you inteprete the prophetic word, if one spritualises it, or tales its plain/literal intended meaning!
     

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