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Israel must go back to 1967 borders

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Tom Bryant, May 19, 2011.

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  1. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    The pre-67 borders argument is ridiculous. There is no way Israel will ever give in to a country who refuses to recognize it's right to exist. Israel will have to be invaded, and defeated, for that to happen. And that never works out well for the invadors, at least not yet.
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I agree - it is a ridiculous proposal. But I do contend it is a stretch at best to claim that God is going to curse America because President Obama made such a ludicrous demand.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I agree. It is more than a stretch. It could be adding to scripture.
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Or He may just give Obama surprise next Novemember...
     
  5. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Even that is a stretch, IMHO. I don't think God is moved by political decisions.
     
  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Not sure who said all this or what htis is so I suppose till I figure out what p[oint you are trying to make I am neutral to those quotes.

    You seem to try and put words in my mouth or know what I mean, so let me try and figure out what you are trying to say I said and I might get back to you if I figure it out
     
  8. tank1976

    tank1976 New Member

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  9. Max Fenster

    Max Fenster New Member

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    Rome?

    Does anyone else find the title of this thread deceiving?
     
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    After listening to the presidents speech and then to Netanyahu's "rebuttal" before the combined house, the antithesis seems to be (who can tell?) that the negotiations of the shared borders with the Palestinian State will begin with the 1967 Israeli borders and they will go from there with Israel sitting in the primary seat of negotiation of which negotiations Netanyahu said "Israel will be generous" in relation to those shared borders but also indicated that in the final settlement Israel will not end up with the pre-1967 borders.

    IMO, only a miracle worker could sell that to the Palestinians.

    HankD
     
  11. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Is God preserving the "race" of Jews because he will eventually regenerate all of them or because he wants more Jews in Hell?
     
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Bill, what a strange question.

    HankD
     
  13. MamaCW

    MamaCW New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Did anyone see this? Its an advertisment on top of the post haha
     
  14. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    A distinction needs to be made between the modern political nation of Israel and the people of Israel. The promise is to the latter, not the former. So, just as its possible to love the people of the USA while having serious disagreements with some/many of the actions of the government of the USA, it is possible to "curse" the political government of Israel while still loving the people descending from Abraham.

    It is important both practically and theologically to not conflate these two entities.
     
  15. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    But they would only possess this land under this promise in as far as they followed God and His Law. Hence, when they did not follow God they were defeated by enemies and eventually driven from the land.

    The modern nation of Israel does follow God or the Law and thus cannot be considered to fall under the promise you mention. No more than the political nation under the Maccabeans. Any reasoning which flows from this promise does not apply to the modern nation of Israel either. And it certainly can't be seen as a fulfillment of the prophecies predicting their return to the land - a prophecy which coincident with their returning to obedience to God.
     
  16. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    1. Not even Isreal considers these to be "their" borders. They make no political claims over the West Bank and several portions of their government (their high courts for one) readily admit this is a military occupation. So, the question of the 1967 borders is not one of national sovereignty.

    2. Conversely, one might argue that calling for a return to the pre1967 borders is a means of blessings them. After all, even Israel seems to recognize that a return to these borders is a condition for peace. Hence, since peace is a blessing, pointing out the conditions for peace would be a blessing, not a curse.

    3. As to not being able to go to the wailing wall, that assertion is doubtful at best. Since Obamas call was not for an unconditional return to these borders, it is only reasonable to assume that things like access to the wailing wall will be part of any peace deal worked out. As to the nativity and other Christian historical sites, why would the Jews really care about such things?
     
  17. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    More precisely they are they borders they won after the 1948 war - borders considerably more than those drawn by the UN.
     
  18. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    FWIW, Obama has also called for Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist. And FWIW, the PLO already does.
     
  19. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    And Obama's stance is nothing new. Both the Clinton and Bush administrations have used this idea as a basis for the talks they supported. In fact, using the 1967 borders as a starting point is pretty well recognized as a necessary starting point for all observers of the peace process. Obama has just formalized what has long been accepted.
     
  20. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Observers, perhaps. The participants know better. And both sides.
     
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