Israel's Redemption

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Deacon, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Deacon

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    I'm studying Leviticus for a class I'll be teaching in November.

    This may be a simple question, maybe not.

    An author makes a claim regarding Israel's redemption;
    I'd like to see if it's as obvious as it seems.
    (I'll provide the book's quote later).

    At what point in Old Testament history did God redeem Israel?

    Rob
     
  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    He's done it several times. The march out of Egypt. The return from captivity from Assyria. The creation of the state of Israel in 1948. These are mere precursors to the true redemption, however, which is yet to come. That is described throughout the Revelation to John.

    People who insist that the reestablishment of Israel in 1948 "isn't part of God's plan" don't know what they're talking about. Throughout history, God has preserved the entire nation in order to provide a place for the remnant. To fail to see that is to fail to understand God's glorious plan.
     
    #2 thisnumbersdisconnected, Oct 9, 2013
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  3. Iconoclast

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    Luke 1: 68-78

    68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

    69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

    70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

    71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

    72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

    73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham
    ,

    74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

    75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

    76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

    77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

    78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

    79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
     
    #3 Iconoclast, Oct 9, 2013
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  4. kyredneck

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    Israel after the flesh [the type/shadow of that which was to come]:

    4 For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam. Mic 6

    The real Israel of God:

    13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3
    15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
    16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6
     
    #4 kyredneck, Oct 9, 2013
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  5. Deacon

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    All very helpful.

    For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of bondage; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam. Mic 6

    Particular thanks to Kyredneck, that’s exactly what I was looking for!

    I recently purchased “The Gospel Transformation Bible”
    In the introduction to Leviticus the author discusses Israel’s redemption.
    I’ve been mulling over this statement.
    Rob
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    the true isrealites are those who have received Yeshua as the promised messiah, and they are spiritual isreal, saved Jews, who also are part of the Body of Christ!
     
  7. Iconoclast

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    .

    They said they would do this....

    8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.

    They failed.....Hebrews 8,
    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    isa 5,
    4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

    5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

    6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

    Mt21
    40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

    41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

    42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

    45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.




    1pet 2 The church The Christian Israel is now the Holy Nation;

    9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy




    yes...that is why the ten commandments are put in our heart in the new covenant...

    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  8. HankD

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    Soon

    Isaiah 54
    5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
    6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
    7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
    8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
    9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
    10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
    11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
    12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
    13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
    14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
    15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
    16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
    17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.​
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    Quoted in gal426 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.



    Isaiah 54

    King James Version (KJV)

    54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

    3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

    4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
     
  10. DHK

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    Here it is convenient for you to leave out the context.

    Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

    Paul definitely says all these things are an allegory. In other places they are not allegorical, but here they are. What was happening in Galatia?
    Judaizers had followed Paul, and had been teaching them that keeping the law was necessary for their salvation. Paul spends much time in this epistle explaining that this is not the case. They were not the children of bondage, but rather "of faith" or free to believe. That is what a child of Abraham is--one who walks by faith. It is spiritual--simply a spiritual connection, and that is all. We are not the family of Abraham. We are like Abraham in that we live by faith as he lived by faith. It is only in a very limited spiritual sense that Paul is speaking of.

    Israel is still Israel, and as Israel still exists today. Paul prayed for Israel, would have died for Israel in his lifetime, well after the cross. He went into their synagogues and preached the gospel there. Israel still exists. They have their own homeland. They may be far away from Christ. The Lord has set them on a shelf for a season; blinded their eyes to the gospel.

    But in due time they shall be saved. They will mourn for that one whom they pierced, and rejoice at His coming. That remnant "all Israel" at the time of His Coming "shall be saved." Their redemption draweth nigh, as does the Coming of Christ.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Believing in Jesus does not a Jew make. There is a mystical spiritual Israel but there is also a very tangible physical Israel. Not talking about a piece of land, but a people.

    My NATION was and is being "redeemed" by the mighty hand of God. Individuals are "redeemed" in another sense from the world/hell by the blood of Jesus. This latter "redemption" is what we think of as spiritual (born again; redeemed by the blood of the land), but it doesn't negate the other types of "redemption".

    Need to keep the two separate.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    Think big problem is that some refuse to see that God still has a promised Kingdom to isreal the nation, as he set thast aside until coming of the messiah again, as perpeter message in Acts!

    And Paul said that not all of isreal is isreal, so he knew that those jews saved by messiah Jesus would indeed be spiritual Jews, children of Abraham!

    So Paul seemed to see within national isreal Jews who were saved by Jesus as heirs of Abraham, now in the church, spiritual Jews, while unsaved were natural Jews...
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Oct 10, 2013
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